298 : Eric Payne – Sometimes you need to zoom in and sometimes you need to zoom out to sell millions on Amazon


I think the title to this episode shows Eric’s superpower. His ability to drill down and sometimes push back to see the big picture, almost at the same time has allowed him incredible success. Add to that patience, experience, strong financial controls and the ability to put off satisfaction and you have a winning formula for success. Great guy with a humble sense for what he has accomplished and it makes a great story.


Eric’s contact


Gaye’s Million Dollar Arbitrage List


Scope from Sellerlabs



Transcript: (note- this is a new tool I am trying out so it is not perfect- it does seem to be getting better)

Stephen:                             [00:00:00]               I’m excited to talk about my sponsors today, Gaye Lisby’s million dollar arbitrage group. Amazing, amazing group. This is a teacher. This is a Gaye, she was a teacher. She is a teacher. Still. You need to learn. This is the type of environment you want to be in because she’s going to help you understand why, and I think that’s the hardest part of this business is understanding why. Why is the red one popular one? The green one isn’t? Well, there’s usually a reason and what gay does is probably parse that better than anybody and she’ll explain the reasons for those things. I think that’s really powerful. Yeah, she puts out a list. You’re going to get a good use of that list if you get in the group. Now here’s the deal. The group isn’t always open, right? So you get on the waiting list and you can join the waiting list through my link.

Stephen:                             [00:00:46]               Doesn’t cost anything to get on a waiting list and if you like her service, which I find that most people do that, that’s why there’s not so many openings. Um, you’ll be with her for a long time. And so it’s amazing freedom [inaudible], she’s part of a anti slamon’s group, amazing freedom.com, forward slash momentum. And you’re going to get in to the waiting list. That’s all I can get you on right now. You can use my name and see if that gets anywhere. But what I like about it, what I like about what they teach in that group or the things that are going on, you know, the current things. I’ve seen a lot of stuff going on about stores going out of business. While here’s where an opportunity is, here’s why you want to do this. Hey, be cautious about this, you know, toys r us coming out, you’ve got to think about this and that’s the learning that you need to do.

Stephen:                             [00:01:30]               And Gay is better than anybody else I’ve seen. So amazing. Freedom Dot com. Forward slash momentum will get you to the waiting list. Then hopefully we can get you in the group and then you’re going to see me in there. And uh, we can chat anytime you’re ready. Karen [inaudible] group solutions, the number for ecommerce solutions for e-commerce dot com, forward slash momentum. It’s going to save you 50 bucks. Karen’s our account manager. We recommend her to everyone because she’s done so well for us. I mean that’s quite frankly the reason we’ve been paying her for last few years, but she’s become an important part of our team. Her and her team are so involved in our account. I just see the emails coming back and forth, hey, we did this for you. I just saw two listings today on like, wait a second. Why did they show up?

Stephen:                             [00:02:09]               I didn’t put any listings up. They got a. They got a set off to the side by Amazon and they reactivate them for me. You know what I mean? That’s the stuff that just happens when you have a strong team and I can’t recommend Karen enough if you use my code momentum. Karen pays me. I don’t want to hide that. Of course we all know that, but you’re going to say $50 and it’s a great opportunity to really, really build out your team with somebody you can trust. That’s why I recommend them. So solutions for e-commerce solutions, the number for e-commerce dot com, forward slash momentum. It’s going to save you $50. Oh, and by the way, she’s going to do an inventory health report. Why is that important? Well, guess what fees are going up. Is your inventory health number declining like ours is?

Stephen:                             [00:02:57]               Well, here’s why and what they can do. What I like is I get a spreadsheet from them and it says, Hey, here’s a bunch of inventory, here’s what we recommend. And I’m like, Yep, re refund. I mean delete a return us blah blah blah, whatever it is. And it’s are destroyed and it just happens. That’s what I like. The other thing that I have Karen helped me with a lot is creating new listings. You know, we do, a lot of the researchers solves, we upload our images and then boom, magically the listing goes live and I don’t have to worry about it. Those are the services that can run offers. Can’t recommend her enough solutions for e-commerce dot com, forward slash momentum. Save 50 bucks, use my code. You save $50 a month every single month and it’s a great service. Plus you get that free inventory health report.

Stephen:                             [00:03:43]               I think it’s a really powerful way, so I can’t. I’m so excited how many people have been joining here because I see it and I’m excited because the messages I get from people saying, hey, this is great. I finally feel like I can focus on something else because Karen and her team are watching this for me and you know, I highly recommend her. Next up is scale solar lamps and scope and we’ll set it wrong. It’s amazing. I mean, it really is amazing when you sit back and think about, hey, I want to get this product up and it’s similar to this product and that’s what that product does well. Well therefore, if that product does well, they have the right keywords, they’ve chosen things correctly, so guess what? You scope and you could see all that stuff and that’s what the most powerful thing in the world is to copy somebody who’s done it right.

Stephen:                             [00:04:28]               That’s what you want to. You want to take advantage of that, right? I mean it’s, it’s fair to see and so therefore you can take and apply it to your listing and immediately get that same benefit. That’s what scope does for me. Seller labs dot [inaudible] forward slash momentum. It’s going to save you $50 on the surface. Oh, by the way, it’s free to try. So sign up, try it and say, oh, this is how it’s done. Boom. And then you’re going to. The lights going to go on and you’re going to be like, man, I can get my products out there. I just can’t wait. Can’t wait. So are labs dot forward slash momentum? The other day I bought another domain. Yes, I bought another domain. It’s almost like A. I’m admitting guilt, but it’s because I had an idea and it was something that was a pretty good idea.

Stephen:                             [00:05:17]               I think it’s going to go pretty far and so what do I do? I go to try go daddy.com forward slash momentum and save 30 percent. So domains aren’t very expensive. You get a few services, it adds up a little bit and I usually buy it three years. I usually buy privacy by the way, I recommend that to buy that, you know, it’s not that much money but when you can save 30 percent it makes it that much sweeter and it makes it easier when you’re buying domains and especially if you buy a bunch of domains. I am a domain collector and so I do tend to do that, but that 30 percent makes it a lot easier and I used to go down there because what I like is I can pop in an address I’m thinking and it’ll say nope, nope, could try this version or try this extension and then boom, there it is.

Stephen:                             [00:05:58]               Hey, you better hurry before it goes away and the right, you know. And so try go daddy.com forward slash momentum save 30 percent. Also want to mention about grasshopper, was that just talking to somebody the other day? And they were like, Oh yeah, use this company called grass held. I’m like, Dude, did you buy it through my link and save 30 percent? Hello? Know they missed that. So save 30 percentage, try grasshopper.com forward slash momentum. No surprise there, but you’re going to save 30 percent and what the real cool part about that is they’re using it for their private label business and it gives them virtually a second phone on their current phone without having to get another number. They can make up a vanity number. They don’t have to go and do all the grief and sign loan contracts. Pretty easy stuff, and so if you’re creating a brand that you want to identify, you want to look professional, you want to look like a real company. Grasshopper is a great tool. It’s an app you put on your existing phone and boom, you now have a customer service to. You. Now have a sales department, didn’t have a manufacturing division. You could forward it to somebody else. You can have it go to different voicemails, different departments, and that’s all included. So try grasshopper.com, forward slash momentum. Save 30 percent.

Cool voice guy:                  [00:07:13]               Welcome to the e-commerce momentum podcast where we focus on the people, the products, and the process of e-commerce selling. Today. Here’s your host, Steven Peterson.

Stephen:                             [00:07:27]               Welcome back to the e-commerce momentum podcast. This is episode 298. Eric Payne. Eric is a mega seller. I’ll use that term long term, um, who’s been selling for only a couple years, but it’s definitely figured out the private label world and the roles and the techniques that it takes to execute. I’m in this crazy world and it is with challenges. He will tell you that. But, you know, Eric Success was built a long time ago and I think his advice about financial freedom and living below your means for a long period of time. It’s kind of like Mark Cuban always says, you know, live with six other guys, eat ramen noodles. That’s how you get successful, right? Are you willing to trade off those things though? Knowing that Mel, without knowing, but kind of being, having faith that you’re going to hit that level of success. I don’t think most people are, um, although if you’re older, you definitely are because you realize that those trade-offs really aren’t important.

Stephen:                             [00:08:26]               They’re just a period of time and time goes so fast. Um, that really good solid advice and a long history of success in it. And I just think that that’s such a, such a good long game plan, um, that, and he gets some pretty good advice for young guys too. So let’s get into the podcast. All right. Welcome back to the e-commerce movement and podcasts. We’re excited about today’s guest. I’m excited for a whole myriad of reasons. And one I think is, you know, he’ll tell you he’s just a regular guy who’d go humble, but he’s just a regular guy who’s figured it out and figured it out in such a big way, um, that I’m sure it humbles him. Even him. Eric Payne. Welcome, Eric. Thanks for having me. Hey, thank you for coming. Is that true? Is that, have you thought about, you know, what you’ve created, is that blow your mind when you think about it?

Stephen:                             [00:09:17]               Yeah, I mean, I think of it as standing on the shoulders of giants, right? I never could’ve done anything like this without Amazon and not just Amazon, but all the services that are in place, you know, ups, uh, Ali Baba, the way that it’s easy to source and there’s just so many things that have been built to give myself and others is opportunity that really blows my mind. I mean, we’re not supposed to be able to make this kind of money and build this kind of business so quickly. So yeah, it’s just kind of crazy in my warehouse. We share space with a lighting guy and he’s been manufacturing well, I shouldn’t say that. He’s been having lighting manufactured for him in China for 20 plus years. And he said it’s one of the most frustrating things from a quality point of view. Do you know you’re always battling order something and it works, works, works.

Stephen:                             [00:10:10]               So then all of a sudden it gets, the quality goes down and he’s like, what happened? And nothing on his part and you know, so you have to continue to battle that. This is 20 years worth of that now. His business is 95 percent manufactured in the US. He said there’s five percent I can’t get from China or anywhere, but China, excuse me, and then he brings it into the US and he’s actually manufacturing here because of quality and that piece, you know, when we were talking about how difficult it was, he said, Oh yeah, we had to go over once a quarter to China on nonstop to find things to deal with things or whatever. Today it’s you turning on skype, right. And you can actually, you can have a face to face conversation over skype with your manufacturer. I mean, just imagine how difficult it was 20 years ago, right?

Stephen:                             [00:10:59]               Yeah, exactly. And um, even, you know, when I tried to look for sourcing things online, just through Google as much more difficult to find something that you know is the right manufacturer. Um, I know a lot of people source in the US for consumables, topicals, that type of thing. But just, I’m just starting out. If you compare, I’m using Ali Baba to source in China versus just trying to find to get us a supplier. It’s, it’s, you know, more difficult. It is. And it’s more costly too, but you’re right, you know, Alibaba has mastered China and even a couple of other countries and I know they have a US option on there, but it’s very thin. It’s very thin. It’s like a miss for our country, you know, it’s like one of those things that somebody should really do is to put together to say, Hey, you know, we manufacturer all these wooden things. We manufacture all these metal things. It is a mess I think. I think you’re right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. OK, so let’s, let’s talk about why Eric is so successful. How did, how did Eric get into sales? I mean, what were you going to be when you were in high school? Were you going to be d? Were you the entrepreneur selling bubble gum or were you the business student going to be the executive lawyer doctor?

Devon:                                 [00:12:21]               So, um, I was, uh, I tried to be the entrepreneur selling bubble gum that was actually a candy and x men cards when I was a, up on the bus. But, uh, uh, when I was a kid for some reason I was scared to death of getting in trouble and once I got called down a couple times for it, I quit. So yeah, I had an inmate from an early age. But, um,

Stephen:                             [00:12:48]               was it a desire, I mean, was it a like a something that just told you that man, I see value, I mean, because I think that’s a skill set when you recognize that something’s cheaper and there’s demand and you can make that money on that difference. Is that, is that your skill set

Devon:                                 [00:13:06]               early on that the, you know, W I didn’t, I didn’t have much coming up and there was no way to get money and as a kid like to get anything I want and I didn’t have the money to do it. So, um, as it started out, you know, um, it was me looking for opportunities to make a few bucks because I didn’t have a few bucks. Right. And I think, um, a lot came from that, you know, humble childhood of, you know, nothing was given to us. There was seven of us, um, uh, myself and six siblings, um, of course, plus my two parents, um, that all came up in a three bed, one bath house, one bathroom. Yeah. Siblings who are spread out enough that it was basically me and for others, so still tight, but, you know, not the whole crew in, at once.

Devon:                                 [00:14:02]               Um, but anyway, you know, and that was on a single income so I’m, there just wasn’t opportunity. And so I guess I’ve always looked for opportunity and that’s probably kind of where that came from, just like that drive, you know. Um, but, uh, you know, growing up I was uh, I went to school for um, a couple of different types of engineering, but uh, uh, I went to community college back home, um, for ended up, uh, electrical and industrial maintenance, you know, and I was just planning on getting a job there, but I didn’t have, um, an entrepreneurial spirit per se. Um, I was just looking for a way to get ahead of the time, if that makes sense.

Stephen:                             [00:14:52]               So, so getting ahead, what did that mean to you? I mean, cause, you know, if you grew up in a modest, sounds like a less than modest home, um, which fascinates me how somebody could support that family on one income for that long, you know, I’m in today’s world, we’d be like, oh my God, we gotta have two people working, we’ve got to have a mcmansion. We’ve gotta have, you know, oh my God, we’re having another kid. We need the extra, extra large minivan and not just a minivan. Right. We need the extra back then. And so when I’m thinking about for you is, is it a, is it a honed skill or back to those days? Was it built in you? Because I wonder like, because sometimes I don’t think I’m an entrepreneur, I’m not really, I’m very risk averse and I wonder is it something that you can, you know, build out the skill, you know, the more you see it, the more you’re around it, you get a taste for it.

Devon:                                 [00:15:44]               Yeah. Um, for myself, I wouldn’t even refer to it as a skill. I would refer to it as Dr. Right. And so I can, you know, I’m not a super smart guy, but uh, um, it, you know, for, for myself and for most people, if you’re willing to dedicate the time to learn something and stick through it and really get results for me, that’s what I guess you would call that skill. Right? And so I think, uh, well I forgot where I was going to say.

Stephen:                             [00:16:23]               I guess what I’m asking you then is, is this fair, do you think that you could learn anything? I mean assuming takeaway the not be an eight foot tall basketball player and you know, whatever, not being maybe not being the best athlete, no criticism, you know what I’m talking about the super outliers. Do you think that if you did dedicate the time and focus you really could learn anything?

Devon:                                 [00:16:45]               I think you can learn anything, yes. But that doesn’t mean that you’re necessarily going to be efficient at anything. And I can say this, coming from an engineering background, like eventually I could figure out how to do things and I could learn all the pitfalls. And, and you know, um, I was a decent engineer. I wasn’t a great engineer, but I’m certainly, you know, people have a certain knack for things. Um, now, um, what’s funny is I used to think in academia that your income is based on how intelligent you are and I didn’t think that I was going to be the smartest engineers and therefore I never thought I’d have the ability to make a huge income. Um, but certainly I realize later that, you know, your income is not at all tied to, um, your intelligence. So that, that was a.

Stephen:                             [00:17:40]               well, what’s it tie to? What W, what would you say their number one, two, three determinants of income then?

Devon:                                 [00:17:46]               Yeah. So number one is, is your grab and motivation and are you willing to stick something out? You know, um, and you know, I’ve had my success with Amazon, but there’s, there’s a million other things that, that you can have success with today in the Internet age. It’s really crazy. Um, and uh, I, I’ve also had some real estate as well, but you know, if, uh, if say I hadn’t neither of those right now, I could start a youtube channel. I could build an audience, I could refer products to them, that’s another, um, avenue for income online. I’m confident that if you took everything away, if I started with that, that act to build that, and I think that just comes back to, you know, because I’ve got the grit to do it.

Stephen:                             [00:18:36]               Do you think, and I’m thinking about what an engineer is, you know, I’m very technical, very detailed, very methodical, right? Like you’ve got to pay attention to all that stuff. Is that a skill set that you have that you’re able to apply to each of those examples like real estate, like, uh, even like you said, building a content channel. I mean, is that, is that something that you think, um, that separates you?

Devon:                                 [00:19:02]               I wouldn’t say that it separates me. I say yeah, it’s a skill that is helpful, but, you know, honestly, um, something I’ve noticed is that, um, and this could sound bad, but I’m more meticulous on things for my own business because nobody cares about your business like you did. Right? And so, um, yes, I think, I think there are certain skills that picked up with the engineering of paying attention to detail, but um, I’m even more meticulous with my own business because if you screw up a shipment, you don’t loose 100 bucks, you lose 10 pounds and. Right. Potentially.

Stephen:                             [00:19:44]               But how do you, how do you, how are you more meticulous? Are you a checklist guy or, or is it just, I’ve done it so many times. It’s wash, rinse, repeat at this point.

Devon:                                 [00:19:53]               Yeah. So I mean both, uh, you know, um, and when I, when I guess when I do things that double and triple check them, right? Um, and I mean there’s like, I wouldn’t call that a skill, it’s just, it’s just, you know, I guess experience. Once you screwed up a couple of times really big, you’ll get really care.

Stephen:                             [00:20:19]               Well, we had to end up pre call. We were talking about relying on others. You know, I have contractors here nonstop, right? Because we just moved to this warehouse and there’s always somebody building somebody and I’m always waiting on somebody and their timeline doesn’t match my timeline. Now, you know, I guess the good news is our timelines are fluid, right? So you can ebb and flow as the day goes on. However, when you’re waiting for a trade or a truck, the other example is a truck driver is going to be here at [9:30]. OK? Ten, 18, nine, 30 and 10. 18 are vastly different in my world. That’s, that’s 62 tasks for me between that period of time that I could’ve been doing. Right. And so when you’re relying on others, you’re disappointed. And so is that one of the things that you do for yourself to do you, would you drift if you didn’t pay attention and do the double, triple check? Do you think you would drift

Devon:                                 [00:21:13]               a drafthouse?

Stephen:                             [00:21:15]               Well, we’re [inaudible] becomes 10, 18, you know what I mean? That same.

Devon:                                 [00:21:20]               You know, I probably do drift a bit right now because it is just myself. I have a, a couple of part-time helpers, but um, I will draft a lot less if I had a full time employee with Jeff Bland and I have here pretty soon. But you have that accountability, you know, with, uh, with, when you’re working directly with someone, you know, I need to have something ready for them to go so I can’t mess around on facebook, that type of thing. Right.

Stephen:                             [00:21:51]               Well, I just think of others because I know for myself, I, I start with a plan and then all of a sudden I get sucked into this vortex of I don’t know what and then it just ends. And so the discipline, I’m always looking for that discipline. I’m the checklist guy like you. I’ve got a, I think for legal pads sitting on my desk right now with stuff, little box. I even build the boxes that I check the box because it’s very satisfying for me to check that box. Right. Um, and so I can drift off into those things and so go ahead. And yet

Devon:                                 [00:22:22]               it’s to that point. Um, and I’ve noticed that I call it a zooming in and zooming out because I’m on the, the owner and the manager and the strategy guy for the business. Right? But while I’m still doing a lot of the details, um, uh, I call that zooming in so I can zoom in and create shipments and do the tedious work and answer emails, but you get caught between zooming in and zooming out and, and you lose a lot of time. I tend to address a lot during that. So I’m, I’m good at doing a simple task which I shouldn’t be doing or I’m zooming out and kinda seeing over everything and running the business. Right.

Stephen:                             [00:23:05]               So is that what the higher. Because I’ve met the gentleman your plan to hire, is that what you’re hoping that he can help deal with? Uh, because I know he has a very special skill set. Uh, you know, I mean, I know you have a deep relationship there. Is that one of the things you’re buying a fix for? Not in a negative way. You get what I’m saying? Yeah. You, you’re self aware enough to know how you are and so you want to buy a fix.

Devon:                                 [00:23:33]               Yeah. So, I mean, I think anyone will tell you, especially when you have a business mindset as you shouldn’t, you should be working on the business and not in the business. Right. And so he can take over about 80 percent of the stuff I do and um, and you know, he’s a high level guy himself and so, um, eventually, you know, he can build a team of b to handle a number of the things that he has to do and he can um, help do some higher level stuff as well. But yeah, that’s kind of the, the plan as far as that goes. I like it. I think it’s very smart, you know, thinking about that because you’re going to bring in a high level guy, I, I, this is a good discussion to go to because I haven’t had this discussion. How do you approach that?

Devon:                                 [00:24:17]               Because you know, you know, like yourself, you risk him getting bored taking on these medial tasks, right? However you got to learn it to be able to teach others. Right. So it’s kind of one of those things have, have you had a discussion too? Is there a plan, is there a, you know, coming up with standard operating procedures, document stating what? Well, how do you, how do you peel this onion back? Because I think it’s a big deal. I think it’s a good, good place to discuss. Yeah, that’s a good question. Uh, so to start, um, he’s, he started his own side, will Amazon business that, you know, makes a grand or two a month. That’s, it’s a nonprofit. It’s small, but he’s, he’s a, he’s had his head in the podcast and he’s been building his own little business so he, he understands everything that’s going on so I don’t have a lot to jump in and train him with, so that’s really good.

Devon:                                 [00:25:10]               Right. Um, so would you suggest that for others, because I don’t want to lose that point because I think you’re right, that learning curve he paid for, not you, right? Um, yeah, it’s definitely an advantage. I mean it’s, I mean, I think the advantage is just saving me time, right? I don’t think it wouldn’t take a terribly long time to train a new person in this process. Right. But like anything, you can know the basics, but you have to be immersed in this for quite a while to really understand on every level kind of what’s going on the good, bad and you know, and where you need to make adjustments early in that type of thing. Um, but yeah, I think, uh, it’s definitely an advantage. But

Devon:                                 [00:26:07]               yeah,

Devon:                                 [00:26:08]               the, I guess the, the bigger question for me in hiring a high level guy is, you know, it’s been back and forth in my head while I could probably hire someone for 35,000 a year and half a full time person that can do anything that I need. Right. Um, but, but hiring him as different because versus someone that you have to train, OK, this is step a, B and c when I’m, when I need this done. And of course he already knows the basics, but I can say, hey, go figure

Stephen:                             [00:26:44]               out how to do a profitable facebook campaign to this brand. I’m going to set me up a funnel to collect, you know, 10,000 email addresses. Like, these are the type of things that he can figure out, you know, and things that I haven’t even figured out. So it’s more like hiring a partner instead of just an employee. That’s a big point. So you’re saying, look, Steve, I’m not hiring somebody to move product because I can outsource that. That’s not something you’re interested in. You’re interested in how do you, how do you manage that next level business where everybody wants to, you know, get, not, not get off Amazon but have other avenues and have other plans and customer capture and all that kind of jazz. That’s where you’re going with it. And so that takes a different person and obviously way more than a $35,000 salary to be able to do that at that level and be able to make decisions where you don’t have to stand over their shoulder saying, you know, it’s interesting.

Stephen:                             [00:27:46]               It’s a risk, is it? Yeah. Um, eh. But, you know, and it’s also building my infrastructure, like I’ve got an update on my website and forever. Um, my Amazon store is extremely basic, you know, um, I’ve really not tried running facebook ads yet because I don’t have time. And so, um, there’s a million things, um, I think of it as me blazing the trail and him being able to pick up the stuff behind me and make it good, you know? Um, but yeah. Oh yeah, it’s sharpen. I was thinking about this example for someone else and I’m talking with, you know, you think about a foundation, right? Those bottom blocks are so important to be so secure, right? That foundation has to be really, really done right for you to be able to build up. And I think that that’s a good example for you is now he can come and build on what you’ve built on and just take it that much faster because those blocks are the slowest to the hardest, right?

Stephen:                             [00:28:44]               They’re the ones you got to dig so deep to get into, just right into place and adjust and now he can accelerate that. You know, the other thing is, you know, one high level and too high level or not one plus one equals two. You guys could really, really excel or it’s like a flywheel, I don’t remember who uses that fly wheel analogy. I’m money be Jeff Bezos where it talks about a fly wheel. Um, this, this is probably how you could, you know, do three, four, five times the volume that you could do on yourself. And so I realize that, but it’s also, um, at the same time, um, it’s been a struggle for me to get my head out of the money and say, you’re losing this much every month you’re investing that and it may take some time to get that flywheel going and that’s the risk that great. How do you manage that? So, so is it, hey, I’m expected to have a return. Like if our commission only sales person, it’s easy, right? Steven, you get paid for what you bring in to eat what you kill, right? That’s still phrase, right? Well, in this scenario there’s a ramp time, right? How do you, how do you, you know, do you have milestones in place? Do you have a plan to say, Hey, this is where we need to be? Here’s where we’re at. This is where we need to be.

Devon:                                 [00:30:06]               Yeah. And I think so. So backing up just a minute before that, to your point, like a, this is a physical products business and so, you know, my mindset has always been that you make more money by introducing product, right? And you and you introduced new products by having capital. So I’ve always referred to it as a capital gain. Right. And so I’m just, you know, yeah, the um, when you hire someone to help with the tasks, then that’s that much more inventory that you can buy. Right. So that’s been a struggle for me. Um, but, uh, sorry, can you repeat your question?

Stephen:                             [00:30:49]               Well, no, I think, I think, I think we’re getting to where it is, but there’s kind of a, it’s a faith thing, right? Hey, you know this guy and he knows his ability. So that’s a, that’s a proof you’ve, he’s a, we used to call those known quantities, right? When, whenever we would hire a talent, we always say they’re a known quantity, so we already know that they’re going to bring at least this level to us. We want to get that little bit more as a leader. Your role is to get that little bit more from them to show them their real potential. So my question was about, you know, it’s a faith issue about paying him because it’s not like he’s going to be able to come in and bring you an immediate return. So how do you, how do you manage that? Did you, did you put milestones in place to say, you know, I’m doing, you know, $10,000 in sales and I wanna be doing $12,000 in sales in six months based on the effort of

Devon:                                 [00:31:37]               x candidate. And the reason is that, um, the, the income growth is going to be my job and his job is to make it easy for me to do. Right. So, um, it’s not a typical job where you would say you would expect someone to bring in this much more because we’re limited to a certain extent by the capital that. Right. And so, um, I’m gonna basically I can stop with all the stuff that I’ve been working on and I can spend a whole lot of time on sourcing and deploying my capital, but I don’t have the ability right now to do that when I’m, when I’ve get the manage the business to manage already, right? So I’ve kind of fill my time up already. And so once he takes all that stuff, I can really start to deploy some capital. And the second thing is, um, that he’s actually a friend of mine.

Devon:                                 [00:32:42]               So, um, it’s not like, you know, if you don’t perform in three months, I have to let you go. Um, but what I have said is we’ll have basically a years retainer to see how this goes, you know, so I’m, I’m investing in a full year and it’s going to take some time to get that going. But you have to look at it, you know, not as I’m spending this much per month or whatever, and that’s really expensive, but you to look at the whole investment and say, this is the year, this is how much it costs. And I’m expecting to make more than that, you know, and much more in the years to come.

Stephen:                             [00:33:18]               I think there’s something powerful there. Um, I’ve done the same with my assistant. It’s like I committed to a year and then that way they could settle in knowing that they don’t have to perform this month. They have to. OK, they’re building something to get us to that momentum. I think that’s very powerful. Um, I was sitting there thinking about another example. I use this phrase all the time. I’m Mitchell lip is the one harvey specter. He, he always says that you got to buy time, Steve, you know, and so by training, right, you buy training courses to buy time. It’s a faster way to learn and that kind of thing. But you’re doing another example of that which I think is really solid and it’s really worth really where, um, you know, unpeeling a little bit deeper. You’re saying, Hey Steve, I’m spending 38 hours a week doing these 22 tasks and I’m now moving these over to this gentlemen. So I’m buying time so I can source. Which is something that you’re really good at, but it’s also where the money’s made. And so it’s, it’s a very interesting way of buying time. I like it.

Devon:                                 [00:34:19]               Yeah. Um, I’ve had to do a lot of that. The last few years is I started this business three years ago and so, um, and I got some, uh, rental properties and I, I actually bought those and renovated them on the side of my engineering job when I was doing that. And so, um, at the time when I started this business, I had 11 rental units, so I had, um, a full time job. I had 11 rental units then I managed and I was building this business on the side. Um, and the funny thing is that when I actually quit my full time job, that was October 2016, I thought, awesome, I’m gonna get a break now. I’ve got to have all this time and uh, you know, I’m busier now than, than I was then. But along the way, you know, um, especially with the rentals, um, I’ve, I’ve started, you know, just hiring it out, you know, have gotten a number of independent people that worked for me. I’ve got a painter, I’m a carpenter and stuff, all these tasks that I used to do by myself than I used to think I can save $100 by doing this, you have to value your time is worth. And I’ll pay someone 1500 bucks anytime to go to the rental on, fix it. It’s never worth my time now.

Stephen:                             [00:35:44]               Well, yeah, the right day we say you get to a place where you have more money than time and you’re in that place. Is it, is it less rewarding for you though? Um, because that’s something that I, I see people say, you know, but I love this piece. You know, Eric, I love painting. I’m a painter and I don’t want to give that up because it’s like one of my passions. However, I’ve got no time for it. Have you gotten to that place at all with any of those tests? Either in the rentals or on the Amazon business.

Devon:                                 [00:36:13]               Um, no, I understand exactly what you’re saying. Um, I don’t think it’s less rewarding for me, but I will say that I do have to, you know, go get my hands dirty every once in awhile. Um, uh, I have, I haven’t tired out mowing my yard because I enjoy mowing and it’s totally not worth my time, but it’s good exercise. I get to get outside and I pushed mow a quarter acre lot. That’s done a basement. So it’s a big hill. Right. And uh, sometimes I kick myself for it, but um, I mean that’s something that I’ve made a conscious decision not to hire out because I need some hands on work and I need to get away from the computer every now and then. You know.

Stephen:                             [00:36:57]               So, so you figured, it sounds to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, that your business in your life intermingle more. I mean way, way more than when you were working at a desk job and it’s going to be like a dusty. We’ve of course. Is that a negative for you at this point in your life? And not all, and I’m speaking generally because I’m sure there are times it sucks, but generally, or is it a positive?

Devon:                                 [00:37:25]               Right now it’s a positive because it’s not like it’s what I do. It’s almost like a hobby. Like it’s what I automatically do by default. Right. Um, if I’ll, if I played video games, which I don’t, then, you know, if I got up and played x-box all day, that’s what I would, you know, do because I want it to. And that’s how this is, you know, um, but wait,

Stephen:                             [00:37:50]               you’ve got a multi million dollar Amazon business and you’re saying it’s a hobby.

Devon:                                 [00:37:55]               Yeah, most of it is. Yeah.

Stephen:                             [00:37:57]               That’s, that’s a big statement. That’s a pretty cool place to get to

Devon:                                 [00:38:01]               in your head. Yeah, I mean it, I mean, and this is how I’m kind of a, a financial nerd, right? And like, like, I mean think of it as I’m scratching off lottery tickets. It takes three months to see if you want anything. Right. And so I’m doing the work on these little lottery tickets. If you think about it like that, but there’s plenty of work that isn’t fun about it, but as, as it’s my baby, I guess, you know. And so, um, that makes it fun

Stephen:                             [00:38:37]               when you think of what you could be doing, right? So have you played out in your mind what would have happened if you stayed in the engineering job and you went out 20 or 30 years? You know, Oh, I’m going to be in Florida playing golf. Uh, you know, uh, being part of the Rotary Club. I shouldn’t say that because I’m a rotarian. Um, you know, just slowing down in life what that thing or this crazy up and down everyday, right? Mentally you’re up and down every day. Things are great things or bad things are great. Things are bad. Have you thought about that in your mind where you’d be without this kind of excitement?

Devon:                                 [00:39:11]               Yeah. Um, and I was already a. So the whole goal is financial freedom and I’ve been able to afford a nice house, a nice car. Now that was, you know, not, not something that I would’ve planned to buy if I was on the engineering path, um, but those, those are cool, but they weren’t the go and um, financial freedom was to go and that’s, that’s what I was working towards, um, with the rentals and I was doing well that. And so I think, um, had I never started this business, um, I would’ve kept building the rentals up and eventually quit my job to, um, run and maintain those.

Stephen:                             [00:39:55]               So you think you would’ve gotten there. It just would’ve taken longer.

Devon:                                 [00:39:58]               It would’ve taken a lot longer. It wouldn’t have been near as much fun and I would’ve been in, you know, I’m a much more modest home than I am.

Stephen:                             [00:40:07]               What’s your advice then? I mean, thinking about, you know, cause there’s a couple of schools of thoughts. You see a lot of people that want to get into this business or in some business they want control. Maybe that is the right phrase. They want financial freedom. They want the ability to kind of decide for themselves instead of having every decision forced upon them based on choices of the past or what have you. What’s your advice for people, I mean, is it slow and steady with the rental business or is it fast and furious with the Amazon business? Or is it, does it matter based on the person?

Devon:                                 [00:40:40]               Yeah. So it is slow and steady with the Reynolds, but I’m still funneling money into those because there are long-term steady assets. Right? Um, and so, um, I think, I think financial freedom is the best financial goal that we can have. Right? And so for anyone listening, if you’re a young, um, you know, if you’re in your twenties and your, your, your goal is financial freedom, um, even if I had not had Amazon would have done it in about 12 years, right? Um, but Amazon accelerated that really fast. But with the, the, um, with the opportunity that we have with Amazon or even other Internet businesses, um, there is so much opportunity. So, um, if you’re young, even if, if you do it slow, you can, you can do this. And I would’ve said 10 years, but you can really do it in five if you figure out online business, you know, five or less. It took me three wants this business took off from the time I started the business. Um, but there is so much opportunity. Um, and even if, you know, if you’re young, that means that, you know, you can be done by 30, which is insane. And even if you’re not young, you know, if you build one of these businesses slowly and steadily over five years, you can, you can be like in a really good place and potentially retire.

Stephen:                             [00:42:12]               You met Paul Miller, I think that might have been your first time, is a perfect example of somebody who’s starting over and has done it and has done it to incredible success and anybody who meets him and here’s the story and sees what he’s doing, realizes that he’s just starting and he started over at 50, thereabouts. And he’s just, he’s just getting started. Right?

Devon:                                 [00:42:35]               Yeah. I’ve also been able to do some really cool stuff. I’m excited for him.

Stephen:                             [00:42:41]               So, so thinking about, um, you know, helping people move forward is private label. I mean, I know what it’s done for you. Did you do any of the Ra or oa or any of that stuff at all? Wholesale?

Devon:                                 [00:42:55]               I did not. So I hadn’t planned to start with, uh, doing some ra before I learned about private label, um, and just, you know, the timing as it was, um, it was just really starting to, to get out and get some traction out there when I had time to actually start building a business. And so that was fortunate. Um, I did actually take a course on wholesale later on thinking that that might be a good way to diversify. But, um, once I took the course I realized that it’s kind of a roundabout way of doing what I’m already doing but a lot more work so I never did it

Stephen:                             [00:43:40]               in your building, somebody else’s product out, which you know, which works if you’re not that person. Do you think your engineering. I was thinking about this too because your product’s pretty engineered. Uh, do you think that training and skill set gives you a competitive advantage on these more technical, larger, more expensive items? I would say yes.

Devon:                                 [00:44:01]               Well, I mean it could, uh, in, in creating new products, but I haven’t created a product yet. So as of now it hasn’t, but it certainly could.

Stephen:                             [00:44:10]               Yeah. But, but it allows you to recognize, right? More so than [inaudible]. I think most people would be very intimidated at based on what you sell. I mean, I think most people would say woo not going there.

Devon:                                 [00:44:21]               Yeah, potentially. But, you know, um, the, having, having found some, some other people’s having been told by other people what they sell theirs. There’s also, um, a number of, of successful sellers that have done things that I wouldn’t want to do, right? Like based on like, well that, that has this problem and that problem and I pray that I’d run into this and so I wouldn’t sell that. Right? Um, but yeah, I mean, um,

Stephen:                             [00:44:56]               I’m saying it like it’s an advantage. You’re saying, no, that’s no more advantage than, you know, somebody being an accountant and selling this or somebody being an electrician. So, so it’s really, I think it comes back to that determination, perseverance and all that kind of stuff. Probably way more so. Yeah,

Devon:                                 [00:45:16]               sure. Um, and yeah, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that I have any advantages as an engineer with my product.

Stephen:                             [00:45:22]               OK, that’s fair. And you know what, that’s a makes sense when you say it that way because it’s like, OK, yeah, you’re right. Why do, why aren’t these other problems or these other products having problems and they. Because those people worked the rule, right? Everything has problems. Those people, that’s the skill set. So when you think about what it was that pushed you past that hill, right? So you, I’m sure you hit the hill just like everybody else, what was it that pushed you over the top, do you think that others could copy or emulate in some way?

Devon:                                 [00:45:55]               Um, so I think probably just based on my past history with what I’ve been able to build on the side, um, and you know, when I first, uh, when I first bought my first rental, um, uh, my tenant moved out early before the lease was over and I was freaking out and I was like, Oh shit, I got into this, I’m going to have this payment by myself. I don’t know if I’ll be able to get anyone else to ran it. And it turned out it was not a big deal at all. But you’ll always have those, um, those moments of doubt. Right. And so, um, having been through enough of those, I think I have the competence, I don’t really worry about it so much. And so with Amazon, when I started doing that, I mean if you run into a myriad of different types of problems, but fortunately for me it’s not been anything crazy. I did get suspended once and that lasted for 16 days and that was the most stressful thing I had been through. Um, but, um, it was, you know, I still had the faith that, you know, I’ll get going. It’s fun, just, you know, I focused my time away from the computer because I didn’t want to drive myself crazy. Um, but, you know, I just, I guess I, I’m that type of optimist certainly given the, the success that I’ve had over time. Um, I guess that’s just my mindset.

Stephen:                             [00:47:38]               Well, that’s not an ego thing, that’s just a proof of concept. I’ve been able to do this before. I’ve seen challenges before I pushed through them. Put your head down, do the work, put your head down. All right, so let me ask you this. So you’ve gotten over that hill, how do you start getting distance, like strides, you think about like somebody who, you know, you’re in a race and you see that person in front of you and they’re just getting further and further and further away from you. It’s like a stride thing. How did you hit that stride? Or was there something that got you past that?

Devon:                                 [00:48:10]               Yeah, so I guess there’s a couple of different ways of answering that. The first thing I’ll say is I’m, I’m trying to hit that stride by like, uh, the new hire that I’m OK and that’s, that’s the, that’s the, I guess intimidating thing to do, but, but other than that, I’ve hit the stride by continuously reinvesting, um, all of the money into the business, right? So, um, I still take a salary of 75 grand, which is plenty for me to live on, um, even even paying the larger house payment. Right? And so, um, I’ve always just put my money back into the business and so whether I funnel some of that into real estate or I reinvest all of it back into Amazon, I’m, you know, I’m only taking, I’m only consuming a very small portion of my income and I think that’s kind of the, the critical piece to me having this drive that I have.

Stephen:                             [00:49:08]               That makes sense. So you’re living below your means. I’m knowing that at some point it’s a snowball and eventually that snowball gets so large. Love it. What would you say your biggest straight than it is when you think about strengths and, you know, because, uh, the other thing I like to look at is I think, you know, everybody has a strength, right? And some match this business better than others. Um, what would you say yours is? That’s a humbling thing. I mean, I get it and it’s, it’s, and it’s not an ego thing

Devon:                                 [00:49:41]               gambling when you think about it and think about it for a second, but it’s exactly what I tell people when they see my success. And I tell them I’m, I’m not smarter than anyone. Um, I say that my, um, the reasons for my success. I think the biggest reason is that I’m able to choose the right opportunities, um, and I have the, the means to invest in those when that opportunity comes along. And, and that, that goes way back for I’ve lived below my means, um, every since I started professionally in 2000 and I live with two roommates for six years, um, in a small a house that’s half of what I could have afforded. And I used that money to start buying the rentals and so it, it’s, it’s this continuous snowball started at the beginning of my career. And I say that because, um, the, the, having the means to invest in an opportunity that you see is what most people don’t have.

Stephen:                             [00:50:59]               Well, but you’re told at least, at least I was told in school, you’ve got to put away for the future, right? You’ve got to put away, invest in the stock market or whatever it was at the time, you know, put your 401k Max, how do all these different things because that’s the way you’re going to have a solid future. You’re saying no, live below your means. Take that money and invested into kind of that rich dad poor dad thing, right? Those assets, churning out investments. And that’s the way you look at Amazon. Is that correct

Devon:                                 [00:51:25]               bear? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, uh, like the, uh. Sorry, I’m blanking.

Stephen:                             [00:51:34]               No. Well, well it. Because here’s what I was going to go. What would you tell somebody young you gave advice to somebody young, hey, this is a chance for you to have a future. Would you say to him, Hey son, invest for the future, put your money in a 401k, get that job, put your head down, get noticed and advance. Or are you saying, hey, put that money into some type of asset? Which way would you go today? Knowing what you know? I mean, I think I know what your answer would be.

Devon:                                 [00:52:00]               Yeah, definitely an asset. The reason that I started investing in real estate and I’ve never invested into the stock market other than to get my match on the [inaudible] with my employer and, and now, uh, investments, uh, the full amount that I can and a set Ira just because it’s tax deductible. Um, but I always invested in real estate because I didn’t plan to retire at 59 and a half up to retire in the traditional sense in any. Anyway, I planned on um, being done with my job at least about 40. And so you can’t, you know, having half a million and a 401k doesn’t do you much good unless you’re willing to pull it out, pay taxes, and pay the 10 percent penalty. So it never really made any sense to invest in that for me, but, um, you can really accelerate this. I think if, if you, uh, if you invest in assets, uh, instead of just stocks, you know, uh, stocks and bonds and that type thing, I

Stephen:                             [00:53:02]               think it’s very sound. So, I mean, I think that’s a good piece of advice. If you’re looking for that long-term sustainable future at 59 and a half or 62, whatever, it’s going to end up being soon. Right? That makes sense. Go, go that long investment. But your scenario is, hey, I want to make my money early, I want to be successful early, build it up, and then I can choose to invest in your, at that place. So you’re a young guy who can now afford to Max out levels that you never would’ve been able to had you not taken and made that investment, I think. I think it’s solid because you also are investing in yourself, right? I mean, so you’re, you’re not afraid to take a course. You’re not afraid to learn new things. You’re not afraid to put in the time. That’s another asset is it, isn’t Eric an asset?

Devon:                                 [00:53:45]               Yeah. And that’s, that’s, you know, originally the whole plan before, before I started this business and have this success was that my rentals can, can replace my job income and that can free me up to learn how to create other businesses. It wasn’t like, you know, and I, I, it would only took like four grand a month to replace my job income. So, you know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t, Hey, well I can get there and go steady. It was, hey, I can get there. That covers everything and it gives me a safe place to really start learning how to create other businesses.

Stephen:                             [00:54:25]               I love it too, you know, sitting back and thinking about that. That goes against everything that my generation was taught. Goes against it. Um, well I shouldn’t say that against everything. There were those who went off and learned a trade and the successful ones are, are living that life right now, you know, and so, um, it’s way different than us who went to college, you know, corporate track and very exciting. So what are you struggling with now? I mean, we already talked about that you’re hiring out to help deal with just the volume of stuff you’re doing, but you didn’t describe that he’s coming in to fix problems you’re describing him coming in to advance the cause. What I, what are you struggling with right now? And then how do you approach that? Because I think that’s another powerful lesson for people.

Devon:                                 [00:55:13]               Yeah. So, um, the biggest thing I’m struggling with is um, so each year, um, in February, Amazon races a, their fulfillment fee. This is a big one to come and yeah. And my average product is oversized. So, um, a, a dollar 30 a unit is what my price went up, so that’s the profit down losing per unit. And I saw him about three between three and 400 units a day. So that’s a big hit, right? Uh, it’s a lot of money. Yeah. And I’m only expanding the product line, right? And then in February it’s going to happen again. All right. Um, and so, um, that’s one thing. And then, you know, just um, over time competition will come to each niche and you got to keep moving. And finding the best products to add to your line that, that are not, you know, saturated, but, um, you know, unless you get to the very top, uh, like some products, they’d go to the top of Amazon over time, over a period of time, they have good reviews and they rank well and once, once they’re ranked well for a long period of time, it’s really hard for those to get, you know, um, you know, taking down in the ranking or for some, some new competitor to knock them off, that type of thing.

Devon:                                 [00:56:40]               Right? But if you don’t get to the very top, um, you’re not, you’re, you’re susceptible to the competition, you know, doing better than you have in a, a better mouse trap or, or even if it’s overseas competitors that are achieving and getting 400 or in a week or a month. Right. Um, so that’s another challenge that I’m having. But, uh, you know, you get to keep moving. And so your product line is you’re always facing products out and you’re always adding new products in. And so I guess the, the, you know, the struggle that I’m having now or what I’m trying to figure out is, um, how I’m going to continue to increase revenue despite these things. Um, and you know, my solution right now is to find a high margin products and to replace myself in the business so that can source a lot of leaves.

Stephen:                             [00:57:43]               Well, I think it’s smart. So you’re saying, Hey, I’m the best chance at having that long-term success, but I need to be free and I need to have somebody I can trust. And when you, when you thought about, because I think this is another important thing for people to think about. You’re going to a known quantity. The gentleman that you’re hiring, you’ve known for a long time, you know, the work ethic, you know, his abilities, you know, the skill sets. Is that advice you would give to somebody to say, hey, go look backwards, um, you’ve worked with the best person in your life. If you remember the skills that you’re looking for, you’ve met that person. There might be an opportunity to go backwards. Is that, is that smart advice?

Devon:                                 [00:58:25]               So, uh, I’ve had, you know, certainly I’ve had this question in my own head and I’ve had a number of people tell me, don’t hire your friends, you know, because in a traditional sense, if they don’t perform, you need to be able to let them go. You can’t continue to pay someone that’s not performing, right. Um, but, but with this business in particular at I know how he can perform, right? So I’m not really worried about that. Um, and for such a critical position and the help that I need, um, I think it’s a huge advantage to be able to hire someone that I know how he works, how we work together and his skill set versus, you know, I can’t imagine hiring someone just based on applications or resumes, um, that I know nothing about for this particular position.

Stephen:                             [00:59:16]               I think that makes perfect sense and I think that that is, that is a good place. It’s different than what it was. Again, here’s the other thing, he knows how difficult this businesses, he’s doing it himself. He knows the challenges cause he’s doing it himself and he knows what the workplace has become because he was in it and so all those things are different today than what they were. And I, I think that’s very exciting. And um, the fact that he’s not old, but he’s, he’s, he’s got more seasoned and experience. The grass isn’t always greener. I think once you get to that place of learning that, because when you’re young, oh, this is the next thing. This is a better company. These corporate people don’t treat you that way. Yeah. Right. Uh, go to the next. It’s all the same. Right. Um, I was thinking about this too. This would be something I think would be helpful because you’ve been so successful at so many different things. One of the coolest things I remember was seeing your deck where you do some work and you can inspire it out there. Can you give us like maybe three habits of your week that others might be able to replicate or put into their habits that make, that, have built out your success to get? When I’m gone, three things,

Devon:                                 [01:00:29]               it’s hard to answer because I have a number of habits that I’m trying to change right now, but for me, the bad habits, dude, I don’t want them. I think it’s different for me being a single guy, then it will be for some, um, but I think like number one is that I’ve always got my finger on the business. I always have my eye on what’s going on. So for me, I’m able to check into it all the time throughout the day, you know, I might run to the gym and then check up on the business, make sure everything’s OK before I go and do this right. And um, you know, s, you know, other people, whether they have a family or they’re working a full time job, they can’t keep their finger on the pulse of it as close as I’m able to, but if you’re able to, I think that’s probably one really good habits.

Devon:                                 [01:01:20]               Um, and I think the second is this, this is, I’m not, I’m not sure the right thing here, but I get s my, my full night’s sleep, right. Um, and uh, I’ve been kind of struggling with like, you need to get up earlier, you need to get up at five or six and, and you know, if you can sleep like six hours a night, seven hours a night and be, you know, perform well, um, then you should do it. And so a lot of times I think of myself as lazy for sleeping eight hours, sometimes eight and a half hours, um, but it does allow me to be productive through the day and I, I don’t, I don’t get tired during the day. Um, so I think that’s a pretty good habit. I’m the third I’m working on, ah, but I think my eating habits, I’m trying to do a lot of grilled chicken and vegetables and that type of thing and I certainly fall off from that, uh, more than I should. But um, you know, once, once I really get consistent with that, certainly for a period of time, I feel so much better during the day. [inaudible] it’s funny between that and working out, a lot of times, you know, I’ll just have a burst of energy during the day. I’m just dropping do push ups just because like I had this energy and it’s good. You might as well. All right. Um, and so, you know, if you’re lethargic all day at the computer, you’re just not going to be very effective. Right.

Stephen:                             [01:02:55]               So is that a place to start right there? I mean, I’m thinking about. Because one of the last questions that we ask is for people to, you know, improve, right? How did they get that process improvement? How do they move their business forward? I think what you just said, if his, a whole bunch of us, Steve included sitting here saying, I do get lethargic during the day, I do hit that point, you know, where I’m getting tired and that. So your advice is to go back and look at your eating or your sleeping habits that exercise all those things because that’s giving you the dude. You’re like a therapist. That’s true though. It’s true.

Devon:                                 [01:03:33]               That figure it out with myself, you know, and I, I’m far from perfect on it, but I can definitely see the difference when I’m on versus when I’m off.

Stephen:                             [01:03:42]               All right, so there’s our advice. We’re going to look at our sleep habits, our exercise habits, and our diet habits. You know, it’s, it’s funny. That’s pretty much the basis for everything, right? Because that affects your relationships, that affects your attitudes, that affects everything and all those around you. All those things. Yeah, absolutely. All right, so if somebody has follow up questions, what’s the best way to get in touch with the air?

Devon:                                 [01:04:08]               Well, I don’t have much of an online presence. I guess I’m probably just on

Stephen:                             [01:04:15]               facebook. I’ll put the facebook contact in there. It’s inspiring to me because you’re relatively young relative to being, um, but you’ve built up not one, but several successful businesses. You’re launching another product line, right? So that’s another, you know, you’re building on what you know. And I think that your goal of financial freedom is absolutely the accelerant that allows your business to grow because you’re taking calculated risks from a place of strength, right? You’re not running away from something. You’re working towards something. I think it’s very, very powerful, very inspiring men. And I wish you nothing but success are very, very thankful for you to come in to take care. Great Guy. A great interview, a real success. And I think his advice of, um, uh, again, you know, living below your means and all that stuff. I just think that’s a solid, you know, I think I think we’re getting to a point in our lives where that’s acceptable.

Stephen:                             [01:05:15]               I think there’s a negative stigma and now all of a sudden people are like, you know, that’s not so bad is simplifying your life. We call it in my house and our friends, um, because that complicated life, that cost is just too great health wise and stress wise, I don’t want that in my life. And I know a lot of other people who don’t also. But I think his, uh, investing in real estate, you know, for the long game is a really solid advice. I know there’s a couple groups where I’ve seen some people talk about that’s their beat, is that they’re taking that excess money and investing it into other things. And I just think that that’s a, that’s a good plan. You know, investing that money in assets no matter what, so they’re income producing assets is really a smart way. And um, I just think his other comment about, hey, I wasn’t going to wait to 59 and a half to have access to this money. I wanted it at 40. It’s a powerful thing. And if you can pull back and think about that, that’s not the advice your grandfather would give you or your father depending on your age. This is different advice, but times are different. The opportunities are different and I think he’s spot on. E commerce, momentum.com, e-commerce, momentum [inaudible]. Take care.

Cool voice guy:                  [01:06:25]               Thanks for listening to the e-commerce momentum podcast. All the links mentioned today can be found at e commerce, momentum, [inaudible] visa. So number, please remember to subscribe and like us on itunes.



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