Have you tried to drive your own sales? Have you tried to bring your own traffic to Amazon? Most would say they don’t need to as that’s what we pay Amazon all those fees for. But if you are seeing higher ad costs with lesser results, then maybe some traffic that you generate might be the answer. Maybe traffic to your other sales channels could help with profits. Great guy and very smart.
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Here is transcript- It is automated so it is not perfect but it does seem to get better over time.
Nick: [00:00:00] Yeah. So I mean, I think with anything, it’s how close is this person to actually purchasing? If they’ve clicked adds a cart, we can probably treat them a little bit differently and with abandoned cart messages, right, than somebody else who’s just opted in from the blog. And it doesn’t always have to be a coupon. I mean, if we were talking about, it could be like, if you really know your audience well, you could have a fun quiz inside messenger about something they care about, right? That could be your lead magnet to get them in.
Stephen: [00:00:47] Hey, wanted to take a second and talk about Gaye Lisby and Gary Ray’s Amazon seller tribe and their daily lists that are put out, um, and incredible stories that you can read if you go out and check out, uh, amazing. freedom.com forward slash momentum hyphen arbitrage. I know that’s a lot to put in there. Amazing freedom.com forward slash momentum dash Arbitron and you’re going to get 14 day free trial, no money risk, no, no challenges. You don’t want it when you’re done, you get out. But imagine getting list. I’m as grateful as I like to call it. Mailbox money. I love that term. Mailbox money. It’s where you can work from your house, buy things online, have them deliver it to you, and then sell them on various marketplaces. But imagine you can have somebody else do that for you. So you want to buy time, you want to control, uh, what they’re buying.
Stephen: [00:01:43] Well, you take these lists and you can join multiple lists if you’re interested, and then you can segregate them for the merchandise you want and send them to them. They can make purchases for you on your behalf. Have it delivered to you or delivered to them for prep. Boom, sent into these marketplaces and you could sell. How about that? Wouldn’t that be awesome? I spoke at their conference and there were so many million dollar sellers just using online arbitrage. It’s still available. And again, 14 days. The only way you’re going to get 14 day free trials. If you come through my link. Um, it is an affiliate link. Uh, they do pay me. So I don’t want to mislead you in any way. Um, I would appreciate it, but I’d like to see you try the 14 days. I’ve had so many people that have joined have so much success.
Stephen: [00:02:26] It’s very exciting to me and you know, quite humbling to me, um, that they trust me to recommend this group and I hundred percent recommend this group. I’ve seen the results. These are great people that will also teach you to fish. This isn’t just a, hey, here’s the list. You’re on your own. No, this is, hey, here’s why that wasn’t a good deal. Or here, hey, there’s another opportunity and you get to join their groups. And it’s just a phenomenal group of people. Um, just great, great, uh, leaders in that group and these lists are phenomenal. So again, it’s amazing. freedom.com, forward slash momentum, I even arbitrage amazing freedom.com, forward slash momentum hyphen arbitrage. Use that get two weeks free. Try it. You don’t like it drop out, but give it a shot if you want to add that to your business. Welcome back to the ECOMMERCE momentum podcast.
Stephen: [00:03:16] This is episode 396. Nick, Julia, boy, you could tell I’m an old man. I’m talking to this guy and I get lost in trying to understand Steve’s way of understanding tech. And he’s so smart. He just, he, he bears with me and he’s very kind. Um, it is just very cool what he’s talking about. I mean, you know, we’ve seen chatbots or you know, um, messenger bots, um, out there for customer service, but he’s saying, Hey, wait, this is even stronger. This is a, the place to start is in marketing and warming up customers. You hear that term a lot and I think he’s so spot on and I think his point, and we get to the point at the end where this is just starting, you’re in the ground phase, learn it. Go put your head down, do the work. Force yourself to learn it because guess what?
Stephen: [00:04:04] It’s gonna be everywhere. Think of Alexa, think of Google offering these things, right? Google services and it’s gonna be voice and it’s going to be this. So you can get this down and figure this out for your brand. You’re going to build your, well, you’re going to outpace everybody else because they’re going to be in the learning phase and you’re going to be already there executing and the best execution ideas are easy. Execution always wins. And if you can do that, and I just think it’s so smart, very smart guy, reach out to him. Um, he offered to book also check out his website, that mind heroes.com cause there’s tons of information there and I think that’s the place to start. Start reading about it, start figuring it out. And then how can you apply this in your business? It’s funny, in the after call I gave him an example of a customer that we work with and he’s like, Oh yeah, you could do this, this and this and this.
Stephen: [00:04:49] I couldn’t put it on air but it’s so powerful. And I’m like, oh this is next level. Let’s get into the podcast and welcome back to ecommerce momentum podcast. Excited about today’s guest because he’s going to help school us. He’s going to help us. I think about next level, the right, I think about, you know, we’re all plodding along. We’re trying to, but you have to keep looking ahead and seeing where the market is going. And I think, um, if you’ve had any success selling on Facebook or any of those things, you can see that there’s a huge opportunity there. But how do you tap into it? Well, nick, Julie is going to help us understand possibly one way. Welcome nick. Hey, thanks for having me, Steven. Hey, thanks for coming on from a, it’s not sunny in San Francisco cause I have a friend there who was a golfing and he said, it’s, it’s always this foggy. And I’m like, yeah, it’s always that fire, right? So not sunny is it?
Stephen: [00:05:45] Oh Wow. Well My, my great San Francisco story, uh, fog was, we were golfing theirs, they picked us up early from the hotel and we bused us up there and we’re playing golf. And I kept hearing these Fahd cords. I’m like, what is that noise? I couldn’t see anything. Right. You’re, you know, you’re hitting on a fairway, you can’t see anything. And then eventually the clouds start to clear and there’s the golden gate bridge like right next to our head. It seemed like because we were up on the cliffs even pretty much with the Golden Gate Bridge and uh, and it was, it blew my mind. And then you look down and you can see all the, what the fog noise was. Very cool.
Stephen: [00:06:23] Could have been, I don’t remember who you were. We were adult beverages involved and it was early in, you know, I mean they’re their stories. So it stayed in San Francisco. So, okay. So let’s talk why it’s funny cause you’re a younger guy. Why are you into this? I mean why didn’t you go to school? You’re out in tech world, man. Why aren’t you out there working in Facebook or Google or one of those companies or developing your own stuff? Why? Why are you into this?
Nick: [00:06:51] Well, that’s actually a good question. Uh, the, nobody’s asked me that particularly, why am I not at a larger tech company? Um, I ended up actually starting off in a, in content marketing, um, and I saw kind of where, where people’s struggles were with email and reaching, reaching their customers. So even collecting emails onsite, then how do we bring people back and convert them? Right? So that was my perspective on the whole thing. So I came from a little bit of a different background. In fact, I actually ended up going to law school prior to that, not practicing. So I was never particularly a tech guy to start with. Um, so really I just saw where this was kind of going and the need from my customers and we started implementing and saw a lot of success.
Stephen: [00:07:48] So now I get it. I mean, so I mean, did you have a like a, a profession that you seem to navigate? Like I have a friend who does lawyer specific. It’s funny you mentioned lawyers. That’s what he does. He’s help lawyers find leads, right? They get customer and they, that’s what they do. Did you have one that you were gravitated
Nick: [00:08:07] too or gravitating towards? Yeah, and in fact it kind of transitioned over. So we’re, we’re also a UN agency, so we do chatbots for people and a lot of my contacts were with ecommerce companies. Um, yeah, my family actually has a, um, a business in Denver, lots of wholesale and we started to get online and through that whole experience I started making more and more e-commerce contacts and uh, yeah, there’s still the majority of my customers when, so they, did they have a retail store, your family? Yeah, it’s both online and off.
Nick: [00:08:45] And were you there when they went online? They had a website very early on. Really crappy. Right. I mean that was a visionary to know that they needed one. Uh, [inaudible] was a manager there that, uh, has long since retired. Um, I, and frankly, I don’t know the story of the website, how that came to be. Hmm. Let me interesting. They still have it. Yeah. It’s still up there. A Jerry’s not house.com.
Nick: [00:09:22] Yeah. So it’s, it’s one location in Denver, but the majority of the business, I would say probably like 90% is, is a actually wholesale. Okay. So you might see them like private labeled in Kroger and
Stephen: [00:09:50] I swear I met them in Philadelphia at the Philly gift show. It could’ve been Philly or Atlanta, one of these gift shows because the name just threw me. I remember walking by chuckling to myself. It’s an interesting, oh, that’s funny. That’s funny. All right, so, so you, you saw, you saw this movement, you recognize the movement. Um, because my experience, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, the software’s getting easier, right? The, the barrier to entry, it gets easier and easier. But so many, so few people take the leap because it seems overwhelming to understand. That’s where I struggle.
Nick: [00:10:27] Yeah, 100%. So this kicked off in about 2016, late 2016 when Facebook opened up that part of the API. And at that point it was really only coders doing this because you had to set up this whole separate thing. You had to know how to code in Java script and it was very inaccessible at first. That’s changed dramatically. Uh, to the point where if you were to open up your favorite kind of marketing automation software, uh, like hubspot or an active campaign, your experience in a lot of the, um, third party Bot building platforms would be very similar.
Stephen: [00:11:06] Yeah, I’m familiar with hubspot. I love hubspot and I’m a big fan. Okay. So, so you get into this, uh, after doing content marketing. So you are a writer. I mean, if you’re a lawyer, you’re a writer, right? Or if you went to law school, you have to ride. And so that was something you gravitated towards. You were understanding building and I made this know, collecting emails and conversion. I think that’s another big challenge. People have, they, they get the emails. They do nothing with it or they don’t know what to do with it. They don’t, uh, warm up the audience. Right. They don’t do all those things. And so when, when the Facebook messenger opportunity came along, because I always hear Gary v say this, you know, way back in the day, every email gets opened now no emails get opened. Right. With offers. Very, very, very, very few with the way I understand chat bots and messenger bots, they’re still pretty, people are opening those, correct?
Stephen: [00:12:08] 80%. So I get a message, I, oh, tell me this. I got one. This the first one that happened to me, somebody did want to me through Instagram and all of a sudden I’m getting a message through Instagram. Maybe it was like a phone call or something and then it connected to Facebook and I’m like, what is going on here? I’m like, who’s got somebody connecting all the, I’m ignored it all because I don’t know who they are, but this stuff wasn’t available until 2016 you’re saying? Yeah, late 2016 maybe mid. Now the reason I have you on, because I’m intrigued, you’re suggesting that this is a way companies today, not because as you say, I guess in our pre conversation we had this conversation, I’ve seen chatbots around for awhile and they were always customer service, you know, is now you can have somebody who’s head, Hey, this is Steve, can I answer your questions? Right? And that’s okay, but that’s not selling anything you’re suggesting at this point you can actually make sales through Facebook messenger.
Stephen: [00:13:15] No, I want you to walk us through. I was going to say then walk us through that because I’m, I’m, I’m surprised that a, that that, I mean, I guess people were buying through there. I guess. That’s so new to me.
Nick: [00:13:29] Yeah, it’s interesting. So it’s not that necessarily they’re going to be buying directly from Messenger. You may end up sending them back to your site. In fact, you probably will to complete the sale. Um, but the whole idea of warming up the audience, that happens at a level that, that really unparalleled in messenger because it can be so interactive. Um, so for example, uh, if, if we took a, a blog post, right, that you would have on an ecommerce or even a a product page, maybe you have an offer on that page for a 10% off coupon that pops up and you collect an email. Instead of collecting an email there, you can have somebody opt in to your Facebook messenger Bot and it’s one click, right? They don’t have to enter anything. They just have to be logged into Facebook. They click and they’re immediately subscribed to your Messenger Bot. All
Stephen: [00:14:26] right, let me make sure I get this clear. So I’m running an ad, I’m sewing Steve’s water bottle. I’m looking at my water bottle. So I’m selling water bottles and I have a Facebook ad and I’m running a Facebook ad and it just, for whatever reason, I targeted you because it’s a match. You’re athletic, you want to get out and do things and you’re like water. Right. Okay. So those things allow me to get my audience chosen. Pops into your thing. You see this cool commercial, uh, Athletic Steve Drinking his water and you’re like, man, I want to look like him. So therefore you hit the 10% off or what happens then? Maybe that’s, I, I want to understand that.
Stephen: [00:15:16] uh, okay. So when I have a landing page, my landing page where I sell water bottles for whatever reason, they came through my blog and it came over. So Facebook Bot would actually pop up on the screen. Ah,
Nick: [00:15:29] yeah. He’d be the picture. Exactly the same thing as you have on an email popup, except now you have a little Facebook messenger button that says, get this in messenger or click here to, you know, something like that there multiple calls to action that they’re like 10 or 15. That Facebook
Stephen: [00:16:03] okay. I put you on the spot. I just, I just think that somebody is going to be doing the same thing because I probably have, I’m very confused at this point cause I am an idiot when it’s talking about this stuff. I’m not, I’m not sure. I mean, to be honest, I mean that’s the, that’s the truth. So I’d like to be more certain, um, especially as people ask me questions.
Nick: [00:16:20] Yeah, no, no problem at all. Um, let me just, so one of, one of the nice things is there are a lot of, there are a lot of people doing it, the people doing it right or frankly a small amount of them. That’s good. That’s opportunity. Uh, I, I’m trying to think of some that are recognizable. What’s happening with larger brands. Like Lego is one that’s played with this. So, Eh, the, another one would be actually American Eagle outfitters. And I know we’re talking about retail as well here, but this was selling directly online. All right. So pure [inaudible]
Nick: [00:17:00] They May. So the problem is they may not have this up at the moment. A lot of the larger brands are running very targeted campaigns and using messenger for those campaigns only. We do see though that some of the smaller brands, uh, still do have messenger all the time. Let me look up one right now. I’ve never really put you on the spot. Yeah, I apologize.
Nick: [00:18:10] guess what? Oh, that’s so funny cause it’s actually pulling up for me. Um, all right, let’s, let’s go to Bot academy.com. It’s a, it’s actually Andrew Warner’s sites. Uh, the full disclosure, I am affiliated with it, but it’s fine.
Nick: [00:18:30] now. Yeah. So if you were to go to any one of his articles on here, I think you’re going to get a pop up on sites and says, Hey, subscribe here. Let me teach you a little more about this.
Stephen: [00:18:45] What was interesting, it knew who I was. Oh there it goes. Yep. Free Guide. Every resource you need a chat Bot business and it says send to Messenger. So that we’re normally would be sign up my email here. That’s where it usually would say that. So in this case it says send to Messenger.
Nick: [00:19:03] Exactly. So if you were to do that, and I don’t know Andrew’s flow, but immediately Facebook knows certain things about you and those are accessible, right inside messenger. One of those things is your first name. So he’s probably going to greet you by your first name. Like, Hey Steven, thanks for whatever. So we’re already able to personalize the journey more effectively than you wouldn’t email.
Nick: [00:19:34] Yeah, I mean I think the attractive thing is that it can be very engaging. You don’t want people to think that they are talking to a real person because that can create some of the confusion and frustration that when the Chat Bot can’t answer a customer service question, users can experience.
Stephen: [00:19:53] Well, and I’ll give you an example. We just bought a new home and um, called our utility company and they are like, the machine is like a, I can understand full sentences, right? So it asks for my zip code, I give them that. Then I give them the street address. They repeat back something, not even close to what I said. And they’re like, is that correct? And I’m like, no. Okay, give me the zip code again. I give him the zip code again, let’s do it again. And they literally, it’s this machine asking exact same question. I give it to them again. They give me the exact same answer. Is that correct? No, three times. If I only know like a person or operator or something, Oh, let me transfer you to an opera. It is. If I had an option, they would have been gone. Now unfortunately it’s utility. So you know, they’re, cause I governmental you have no option, but that would have, I was so turned off from that experience, I was completely ready to run away. And so that’s a risk. Correct.
Nick: [00:20:44] Yeah. I mean if you miss handle the way your Bot responds to people, then absolutely. Well that’s one of the nice things about starting with more of a marketing focused. So I just, by the way, if you do want to check out an ecommerce site about this, there’s one of my customers, I just kind of got the okay from them to share. Okay. Is a pod, prince.com p o d p R I n t z.com, and there’ll be a pop up on there with a coupon. So it’s probably more applicable to your, to your audience.
Stephen: [00:21:37] Pod, prince.com. Okay, so, so walk me through this example, like this company. What, what did they do in the past? What did adding Messenger bots do for them? Can you, can you speak to that? Yeah.
Nick: [00:21:54] Present. Um, so for them then they still collect email. I’m not advocating that you go away from email entirely. In fact, inside messenger, I think you are absolutely on top of getting somebody on your messenger list. And that happens, right? When you click on that button, you’re now a marketing lead inside Messenger. You’re part of my list. You still want to collect an email because there’s always a risk with Facebook. But for this company, they started offering a 10% off coupon for first time customers, right inside Messenger. So a little pop up. Once people are engaged, um, we ask them, who is it, who it’s for? They particularly target fathers and daughters. So we probably know it’s one of these two segments, but we find out a little bit more about the customer. So right away. And then we let them keep shopping. So they get their coupon, we ask them a couple marketing questions or customer segmentation questions, and then we let them complete the purchase if they want to. If they don’t, but they’ve put something in the cart, we actually trigger, um, abandoned cart messages right inside Messenger. And those messages alone in fact that have been the biggest source of revenue, um, outperforming email, abandoned cart, uh, they even have SMS on there. It’s, it’s outperformed that SMS they only do on mobile. Um, so it’s been the absolute biggest source of, of revenue for them. Uh, driving sales and breathing out first time purchases.
Nick: [00:23:45] mean it’s, it’s almost like having a, just an app on your site. All right, so anything you could do in an app you could probably do in a chat bot. Some of it might be very custom, but is it possible? Probably, yeah.
Stephen: [00:24:04] When, when you think of a company that’s doing it right. Okay, so, so let’s think about who’s, who’s listening to this right now, they’re selling on Amazon and Ebay and maybe their own website, right? Shopify stores, and they’re sitting there saying, okay, I definitely would love aide, own my customers, right. To engage with them. Because if they’re selling on Amazon, they’re not their customers or Amazon’s customers. Right? Unfortunately that’s the way it is. But if they sell even on, on their own website, they’d like to engage with them more. But that’s a challenge. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s just overwhelming sometimes because they got, you know, seven irons in the fire and they’re trying to manage that. So by using this kind of program, is there a way that this will allow especially newer private label sellers to, to start engaging with that customer to start warming them up? And if so, what’s the steps that you recommend?
Stephen: [00:25:06] I would say probably more Amazon sellers or Shopify. But you know, even if you have a Shopify store, 98% of your sales are gonna come through Amazon. I mean today, you know, unless they’re run in Facebook, you know, viral campaigns and stuff. Generally speaking, it’s almost all going to be Amazon.
Nick: [00:25:22] Right. And so what I would suggest for that is if you’re running ads to Amazon, definitely run people through either at least at minimum a landing page or a chat bot directly. There’s no problem with sending them eventually to Amazon. But we do want to capture them as customers now or as leads so you can remarket to them. Amazon gets tricky. But what has been successful for other people, if we’re not even talking about ads in the, put an insert in your Amazon box either with the link or a QR code, QR codes I know traditionally aren’t, aren’t super effective, but you are going to capture some percentage of people with a promise of a future discount in that box. Okay, go ahead. So sorry, maybe you have, maybe it wasn’t. So like if I were to print something.
Stephen: [00:26:25] No, I, I say we, we have circle. We have warehouse customers, I think most people are familiar, they have in there, especially because there are terms of service with Amazon, you’re allowed to do some things, not others. Generally it’s warranty stuff or you know, that kind of thing. Right? I mean that’s what a lot of people can do and you can kind of get away with.
Nick: [00:26:41] Yeah. And that’s part of it. You, you could easily say for customer service, go here and then you can still nurture that relationship a little bit beyond just customer service. Right. Um, and that’s, we do see that, that for most interactions, even if it’s just with a customer service agent inside the body, if you present some other options later on, one of the use cases might be like particular help finding a product. So if it’s a complex purchase, like sizing is very, yeah, that sort of thing. Um, or even just a discount offer. If they click through then that, that is effective in terms of driving sales, even if it’s from a customer service related contact.
Stephen: [00:27:29] And so the pitches, what, so you know, Steve Cell and water bottles, I bring you to my site or maybe through Amazon, whichever or like you say, come in through my site first. Um, hey, here’s a coupon and this will allow you to buy right off of Amazon. I mean that’s the beauty. So Amazon doesn’t lose in that scenario. So you’re talking to them upfront and you’re saying, hey, let’s start a relationship here. Here’s 10% off and order. Can you put in that Chat Bot then the link that would take them right to the Amazon listing and with a coupon code? Is it that sophisticated yet?
Stephen: [00:28:12] His information use a Steve’s 25 off our or something like that. Correct. Yeah, absolutely that, that’s easy. And has that effective, I mean, do you, have you seen any better closing rates with by running like an ab test or any of that stuff?
Nick: [00:28:27] Yeah, I mean, honestly it tends to be, because we can follow up with people in Messenger and keep the conversation going. Um, and people are, are reading the messages. So like we talked about at the moment, the channels getting huge open rates. So 80% give or take and click through rates are usually upwards of 50%. So 50% of the 80%, that’s what you’re getting. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And they clicked through that means they’re going to see the offer.
Nick: [00:29:01] Right. But what we can do is we know that they’ve clicked, we don’t know if they’ve purchased or not, but 30 minutes, two hours, however long you want to give them to possibly complete the purchase, we can follow up with them and say, hey, were you able to purchase or did you have any questions? So
Stephen: [00:29:22] that’s a, like we use convert kit for something like that. So with what, what software, do you have to use a different, like a plugin or something for that? Or does Facebook messenger allow that specifically?
Stephen: [00:29:41] Okay. Okay. All right. That’s what you need is that third party that’s going to then send that other message out. Right. It knows the time and that kind of stuff. Exactly. Okay. All right. And so many, Chad is, I’m familiar with many chat that seems to be one of the more prevalent ones. And what was the other one? Chatfuel yet? Chatfuel and those services do what for? Um, Facebook messenger
Stephen: [00:30:14] And, and that was one, cause I asked that question in our pre interview where you’re talking about, is that what people are using for our CRM? So they’re using Lincoln many chat to keep that information.
Nick: [00:30:24] You know, I mean most vendors are going to have some other CRM. Um, but that’s easy. We can usually link to that with Zapier or some sort of software like middleware. Uh, sometimes we have to custom code it, but it’s very possible. So yeah, I’m thinking of
Stephen: [00:30:45] like the flow. All right. So again, I’m selling water bottles and somehow either through a blog or through Facebook or whatever, right? And you’re saying there are multiple ways, there are lots of entry points to bring them in a buy. And I make sure I’m clear and understanding. So wherever it is, I say, Hey, click here. And it pulls up messenger with one click and it’s a, and then my message comes to you saying, hey nick, uh, I see you want to be like Steve Too. So you know, here’s 10% off. They’ll laugh that heart a 10% off your a water bottle. Um, and um, you know, or join our list of other want to be athletes, you know, uh, we have blah, blah, blah. Right. Whatever it would be. And that’s the warm up phase, right? That’s the one where if they click yes to sign up, that’s engagement. Correct. Exactly. And that’s hard. That’s hard to get that first engagement. It’s like really hard because you’re physically saying, nick, I needed a decision here and for you to click yes. I mean that you know that I’m going to market that you to death, right, by saying yes.
Nick: [00:31:53] Yeah. So, so you’ve actually, I mean, once you click to get into the chat Bot from a button, there are some exceptions to this. You’re now a marketing lead, so you don’t actually have to take another action in there. I mean, technically I could market to you right away. That’s not what I would advocate doing.
Stephen: [00:32:13] So offer an acceptance right there. So that means you agreed to become part of a marketing thing. Exactly. Oh, interesting. Interesting. So let’s convert this to sales because I, I think what people are gonna be listening to is they’re saying, what are these guys talking about? What are they talking about? This is a method that you, um, in the old days, right? You just have to be the lowest price to stand out, right? Or You just had to have to get there first. Maybe that’s a better way to say it. I to get to you first and then boom, if you weren’t smart enough to go search and see if it was cheaper, you likely would buy from me assuming that that’s what it is now. There’s just so many options and there’s so many opportunities. People might check you out, but they never get an offer, right? They just move on to the next thing. Right? They lost interest and they move on with this. What you’re saying is, hey, stick around. Here’s an opportunity for you to maybe look at buying us stuff, right?
Nick: [00:33:08] Yeah. And I’d like people to think beyond just strictly making the sale right away. This is a way to start some, some relationships with people in a way that you generally can’t over email. So if I were to ask you a question in email about your preferences, I would venture to guess that the reply rate to that, like if we were selling like mountaineering gear, right? And if I was, if I wanted to segment my customers and find out these are avid like mountain people that, that you know, are rock climbers, these are actually people that maybe just mountain bike, things like that. People that would reply to that email and say, hey, yes, I identify as like I mountain bike every, every other day really low. But that, that sort of conversation can happen very, very easily with a single click or a little bit of typing inside Messenger. So you get to know a bit more about your audience. You can then send them targeted contents to keep that relationship going. Right? So maybe it’s about the next mountain bike event that’s happening in their area or, and that might be specific, but, but you can see the possibilities of extending this beyond just the sale to keep top of mind. And then when you have an appropriate offer, then you can send it to them. You’ve already warmed them up. Um, and they’ll be more receptive so it can parse
Stephen: [00:34:42] that data that the feedback given. So mountain bike, I’m interested in men’s mountain bike for example. So therefore we can segment that data, hold onto it, and eventually, like you say, earn the right to make a pitch when I have an offer.
Nick: [00:34:57] Exactly. How did people do that in the past? Not easily or they just didn’t do it? Probably. Yeah. I mean, you can do it in email and I’ve seen it done with links and sometimes replies and you can automate this and in a lot of different softwares. I know, I think you mentioned convert kits. Um, I think it’s very possible. It’s just that you’re not gonna get a lot of people to take that action. Right?
Stephen: [00:35:24] Right. Yeah. It’s, it’s people want, was it passive? Right? They want easy. This, you’re forcing me to make a decision like writing an email’s a hassle. If I have to click the button, then reply to you. Now it’s like having to call you on the phone, hassle time. I mean, that’s how lazy we’ve gotten. Right. Um, so, so in this scenario, it’s really just click back and hit the thumbs up. In theory, you know, with a lot of, yeah.
Stephen: [00:35:53] is it because it’s so short and they know they’re not going to get dragged into some, you know they, they know they’re not expected to be grammar. Correct. They’re not expected to have, you know, full sentences, paragraphs and all that rigid stuff. Is that part of it, do you think?
Nick: [00:36:08] 100% I definitely think that’s part of it. It’s just you’re used to communicating in any sort of messenger platform and just like a short text version. Right? So you’re going to use an Emoji, you’re going to do like just like, yeah I do that. Not an email where it’s a long drawn out thing or, or in your mind it is. Right.
Stephen: [00:36:28] So this chat bot takes that data, gives it back to you and says, Okay Steve, we got nick, Nick’s interested, he wants to look like you. So we want to put that into a bucket through these third party companies. And then at some point we feed you more. I mean, is the recommended them to feed you more information to build you up ego wise, a little bit more? Um, not with an offer as you’re saying, because that could be a turnoff. So it’s really to engage with you more to get you drawn into to say, yeah, we do have a connection here, our business and you seem to have some similar interests. Here’s some more info on it. Right? Is that kind of the way it works?
Nick: [00:37:05] Yeah. So I mean I think with anything it’s, how close is this person to actually purchasing? If they’ve clicked adds a cart, we can probably treat them a little bit differently and with abandoned card messages, right, than somebody else who’s just opted in from the blog. And it doesn’t always have to be a coupon. I mean, if we were talking about, it could be like, if you really know your audience well, you could have a fun quiz inside messenger about something they care about. Right? That could be your lead magnet to get them in. Um, so there are lots of different ways, but it’s just how close is this person to purchasing? How much warm up do we need and no matter what, I would still suggest like sending information that they care about and can interact with, uh, is a good idea to foster the relationship.
Stephen: [00:37:55] I’m thinking this as I let I think about this. I get very few messenger, you know, thing, couple of day I get thousands of emails a day. Yeah. Is that one of the other giant reason it stands out today?
Nick: [00:38:09] Yeah, I mean right now it’s, it’s the open rates in large part of the channel. It’s new, it’s not CPU. People aren’t getting bombarded with messages. I think eventually that’s going to change just like it did with email, but I think we still have some time yet and Facebook’s taking some steps to make sure that doesn’t happen that quickly.
Stephen: [00:38:30] Right. I think of like cell phone calls. I mean do you even answer your phone anymore if you don’t recognize a number? Nobody does because it’s 90% of the time don’t hang up. Your business is not available on Google, Blah Blah. I’m like, who is this lady? I’m not. Hey, I hanging up lady and I’m blocking you. But they keep, you know, they keep masking a local numbers and they’d just get in there. So now my experience is most people and I watch them, nobody answers their phone anymore. Like nobody. That’s a risk. And that’s kind of the way email is. And this scenario though, generally if somebody came in messenger, they know me. That’s the way I think about it.
Nick: [00:39:08] Well they know you. And the other thing is like, think about what happens when, when you get a text message. If I were to text you right now in your phone, what is your phone do? Um, looney give me a little message like it dings at you and you would probably just take a quick peak and maybe tap on it just out of habit. Uh, Facebook messenger acts the exact same way. So anywhere you have Facebook installed, right? You also have messenger with very little exception. So it’s going to Ding it you on your computer. If you’re on there, it’s going to, and you probably even maybe have a push notification on there. You also have it on your phone and it’s going to pop up just like a text message would.
Stephen: [00:39:50] Hmm. And so that gets my attention more today. Like you’re saying. Um, are there things that are coming after that that you see out there in the pipeline, uh, since you’re out in the big silicon valley area?
Nick: [00:40:06] Yeah, I mean definitely the customer service piece is evolving. We can do it better and better. Um, and some, some people do it fairly well today. It’s just that it’s more costly. So there’s some natural language processing that needs to happen. Um, and one of the things we talked about briefly was, look, it can be frustrating for somebody if they’re, they don’t get the information they want. So I would say definitely look toward using that to lower your customer service costs, but you quickly want to escalate the cost, the conversation to a live person. If the user doesn’t get the information they want.
Stephen: [00:40:43] Well, and maybe the interim step is to use it in your off hours, right? Or something like that. And just try to figure out how you can start feeding it into your system. You know it because if you just close and it just gets a voicemail, that’s not great. Nobody leaves a message hardly. Um, so if there’s a way, because some problems, any idea how many problems can get solved with, with this? I mean, have you seen companies doing it well, either solving problems or taking orders through these, um, any idea?
Nick: [00:41:12] Yeah, no, it absolutely can. If you think of your FAQ questions, those questions can absolutely be automated, right? It’s the stuff that you get asked over and over again that generally is fairly easy. So if that accounts for 70 to 80% of customer questions to you, then that’s probably the amount that you can automate.
Stephen: [00:41:37] And so if somebody is getting a lot of the same questions, that’s, that’s what they should be doing right now is just saying, Hey, wait, we can, we could stop these calls from coming in. I would look at that. And one of the biggest things for, for customers that I’ve worked with is where is my package? Hm. Oh yeah, yeah. 100% all the time. So if a face popped up with Nick’s face saying, hey, let me check for you, that would be powerful.
Nick: [00:42:01] Yeah, exactly. Or even in the Chat Bot, we can pop up a little image with a button that says, track my package on top of that, if you order and you’ve opted into messenger and we can send you shipping notifications right in Messenger. So we’re preventing some of that from happening, like preventing the call in the first place and the question from, from even occurring.
Stephen: [00:42:24] So you answering the question before they ask it. And it’s funny because that’s the belief of Amazon. They say if they get a phone call, that’s a fail, right? That means we didn’t do a good job of presenting it or answering your questions in advance. So it’s a fail. So in this scenario, this is really, and it’s also the customer service or the order taker or the marketing person that never takes time off to, I think that’s very attractive.
Nick: [00:42:48] Yeah. And I mean it works both ways, right? I think it, I think the easiest place to start, like I was saying is, is the marketing side of it. Um, certainly if I were an ecommerce company, I would suggest starting, look, start with abandoned cart cause it’s low hanging fruit. Um,
Stephen: [00:43:04] and that’s where somebody’s clicked to buy, but then they’re like, you know what, I have buyer’s remorse and I’m getting ready and I moved my mouse to the top left and I’m ready to hit the Arrow or the x and boom, it says, hey nick, stop. That’s that. That’s an example. Correct.
Nick: [00:43:19] Yeah, that could be. So it’s actually a little more nuanced. It’s almost like email. If you opt in on that, that box that popped up that you saw on pod prints and then you put something in the cart, you don’t check out 30 minutes later from pod prints, you’re going to see an abandoned card messages saying something like, Hey, your, your uh, awesome necklace is waiting for you and you’re going to see an image of the necklace and an option to check out with a 10% coupon code.
Nick: [00:43:55] And that’s what we were talking about. So I’ll give you the specific numbers, cause I know they won’t care, but that code has driven in the past. Let me look, I think it’s three months or so. $24,000 in sales, 24, seven 40 for pod print for pod prints.
Stephen: [00:44:14] Hmm. And that would’ve been gone. I mean it was gone. People clicked and you know, good luck going back to remember to go back and click on it again. Right. I mean, good luck. Exactly. So
Nick: [00:44:26] abandoned cart. I would also start with Facebook ads, a retargeting at the of the funnel. Um, there’s another store that actually does as well. I, you probably know him. It’s a Hazara. Firestone. Yeah. It’s vital. I met him. He’s very cool. Yeah. So, and he’s always on top of the newest stuff. So they, they did a, a test actually where he retargeted people to Messenger. So bottom of the funnel, people that didn’t purchase, we’re not talking about abandoned cart on site, but through messenger a on Facebook. So if they haven’t purchased, they see an ad sending people to messenger outperformed his, um, uh, dynamic product ads that he was showing to people. And again, is it because it’s the warming that happens where it seems more intimate? I he, you know, I’ll be honest, he didn’t really warm people up at all with that. It was just an ad to a coupon code. It did have some images in there and the match to the landing page was pretty exact. So I mean it was a good Facebook messenger ad. So with, with messenger, you definitely want to include images that’s part of your copy almost now. So it’s creative and copy are very intertwined. Uh, and he was just sending people to, to check out on a, on a page after that.
Stephen: [00:45:41] Hmm. Um, that dude is very smart and he definitely seemed cutting edge and he’s built a very large business and doesn’t use Amazon for a lot of it. I mean it’s, I think it, it is mostly Facebook and that kind of thing. Um, is it, it’s replicatable today,
Stephen: [00:46:10] Hmm. And you recommend many chat. What was the other one you make amend? Chatfuel chatfuel I’m gonna make that and I want to make sure I write that down. So many chat and chatfuel. And so if somebody is sitting here and they’re like, okay, I, I, Nikki got me interested because we’re talking about, like you say, we start with those with the marketing because it’s the best place. It’s a great place to learn and then eventually it could turn into customer service and you can replace, it’s not replaced as you expand. This can fill in your team. Right? I mean it, it is weird to have AI as part of your team, but if they can do some of the, like you said, tracking was a perfect example. Somebody has that question. 24, seven, it’s available. That’s a service to me that’s valuable. Right? 24, seven, I can just hit a button, I don’t have to talk to anybody and it’ll show me where my package is. That’s valuable. That’s where you evolve to.
Nick: [00:47:02] And that’s the stuff where we try to add value to the customer journey. Right? So it’s your receipt in Messenger tracking and then maybe I do have a question. So I see it in messenger, the tracking, but I can quickly either talk to the Bot or escalated to a live human. So it augments your team is the way I would put it.
Stephen: [00:47:22] Yeah. I, I think that that is again, managing getting tracking cause right now it comes through my email and again, I’ve got a million them in there, but if it’s coming to my Facebook messenger, very few messages that would make it stand out. Um, and then it gives you, I assume the ability to follow up. Hey Steve, you got your package to want to make sure everything’s great. If it’s not, let us know.
Nick: [00:47:45] Yeah, that’s one of the cooler things that, that I, I think for, for merchants makes difference. So we do follow up with people. Uh, if you’re on Shopify, Shopify is API actually lets you know when the package has been delivered, if it’s attracts package, so you can trigger a flow, like a message in your bots a couple of days after the package has been delivered and the customer has in theory had a chance to play with it. And there are two cases, right? Either it’s somebody happy or somebody’s not right. Basically, you know, it’s good or bad. Yep. I’m with you. And if they’re not happy, now you have the chance to do some proactive customer service. So if they click one star or two stars are crap, you know, bad, you can start reaching out and alerting an actual live human that, hey, there’s a problem here. Let’s fix it. Yeah.
Stephen: [00:48:36] And so the system can do that and send Steve a note saying, hey, you know, Nick’s not happy with his purchase and then boom, I can then call you and say, Hey, what’s going on? Let me make this right. Or whatever.
Nick: [00:48:47] Yeah, exactly. And the funny part is a lot of merchants will see their complaint rates actually don’t help a bit. Um, because those are customers that never would have complained to you. But because it’s so easy now you have a chance to fix it.
Stephen: [00:49:03] So you’re giving, yeah, I was going to say, you’re giving them a chance to complain and you’re like, are you sure you don’t want to complain, nick? I mean we’re giving it another shot, but however most people vote with their feet, at least my experience, they’re never coming back because they didn’t get a chance to make it right. Right. You did nothing. I was dissatisfied and I move on and up voted with my feet in the scenario where our here is, I’m complaining or I’m not complaining. Now I’m complaining cause you gave me a chance to, yeah, you’re right. That thing really is kind of tight and then I can have a chance to fix it and then I can build that relationship that much stronger. Are there any stats that you’ve seen on what people can see in an increase in sales or, or what, what’s what people have seen?
Nick: [00:49:44] Uh, one of the stats I can point to, um, and it’s, it’s changing a little bit because Facebook rules are always changing, but initially abandoned cart through messenger, we were seeing about four x to 10 x more revenue through there. Then email marketing. Um, one of my customers through the whole Bot funnel and we were tracking with like Google track, uh, analytics tracking links, think their overall conversion rate is at about like little over 18% from Facebook messenger no matter how they come in. Right. So it could be a customer service inquiry could just total funnel.
Nick: [00:50:28] One of the other thing that you can do is really, um, build out a group on, on Messenger. Correct? Yeah. I mean it’s, it’s basically equivalent to your email list. People do have to be very careful because Facebook does have some strict terms of service, um, about how you can contact these people and eventually, and it’s starting already, it’s going to turn into pay-to-play. So I, I would get in sooner rather than later. Oh, interesting. Um, once you have the, I mean, are there going to be Messenger influencers? Are we going to have that people? Oh, that’s funny. I guess I would say that we’ve already started seeing that a little bit that are everywhere. Those people, those Kardashians, the Kardashians are messenger influencers and their money. I bet you I’d be, I think you’re right. I mean there are some bots, uh, I know of one with over, it’s like a million and a half people in there. Uh, it’s, it’s not e-commerce all I can tell you that, but, but yeah, they, they promote other people’s offers in the Bot and that’s how they generate a lot of their revenue. What do you see the,
Stephen: [00:51:44] it’s not an end game, but what do you see it evolving to? I mean, what are, what are the companies of the future? I mean, I, maybe that’s the way to end this kind of conversation is that like you say, get into marketing because that’s the easier place to get into because it’s nice. People are interested or semi interested. You’re giving them value. That’s all the relationship. Then once they start to complain, then you can move into customer service to deal with challenges and be proactive. I love what you’re saying there is to get, get ahead of this story, right at volume, at scale. What, what’s the full picture look like? I mean, is it, are we looking at complete virtual companies? Like, I mean, is that
Stephen: [00:52:27] service, uh, I mean it, it almost, you know, and if they use a third party company for fulfillment, I mean it seems like you can, you know, one person can have a whole team but not really team. It’s
Nick: [00:52:37] bots and run a whole business. I mean, I don’t think that’s coming for a long time. Okay. Yeah. I think that the bot experience is probably never going to be as great as it could be with a human. It can certainly be more consistent so it can be consistently good, but to stand out, I mean, there’s a level of EEQ that great customer service people in great companies tend to have that I don’t think is that I think is a long ways off with a Bot. Hmm. MMM.
Stephen: [00:53:14] I’m definitely, as I, as I look out there and I think about, you know, where our ecommerce business is coming, I remember who’s a John Lawson said this is that you need a landing page for each product, Steve. I mean, where the market’s going to go is when somebody looks for a backpack, they’re going to want it, they’re going to come and you’re going to want them to come and see your backpack, right? There’s no competition there cause they’re only seeing yours. So how do you get them there? And then once I have them there, how do we market to them? And I think that’s the miss that last little bit, you know, just come and see my website. I’ve got you on my website, which is huge. But now like you say, there’s no engagement. I’m not sitting there saying, oh wait, Nixon, the website, let me wait. Hey Nick, what’s going on dude? But when I go to mind heroes, which is working, by the way, mine here is.com so it must’ve been a funky thing going on. We had storms here. Um, I got a message saying, hey, how can I help you? And it knows it’s me. That’s what I don’t like, Nick. I’m just going to let you know that I don’t like that. It knows it’s me that wants me to log into my messenger.
Nick: [00:54:13] Yeah. It can feel weird to people that aren’t used to seeing it. Absolutely. So there, there will be some of that, but it’s, I think it’s rare than, than it’s not the norm anymore. To have people be uncomfortable with that. In my experience.
Stephen: [00:54:30] I think it, I think we’ve accepted it. And so I think those of us who have accepted it, uh, are now saying, okay, how can I utilize this? How can this make my life easier and better? And I think that that’s where I’m at. Because again, if I don’t want to go through what I went through to get my electric turned on, you know, Oh, you’re at two 24. I’m like, no, five Oh six, Oh, 24. No, you know, so, so I don’t want that grief. And so again, if we can get that fixed, um, when I go to mind, heroes.com there’s a section called articles you guys have touched on tons. I mean, you know, the idiot Steve talking this stuff, everybody’s going to be like, I’m a little more confused. I’m certain that you’re going to be confused after listening to me. Not Nick. He’s got, you got a lot of articles out here. I mean have you, have you counted how many articles you have? You have up to page five and
Nick: [00:55:20] no actually, but there’s quite a bit about messenger. So I apologize if there was some confusion around this. It’s actually in some ways it’s easier to see it. So the articles are a great way to
Stephen: [00:55:30] you give you give. Exactly. You know, it’s funny, I’m looking at flow charts almost like so you can see it. I think visually, I think this is a visual thing that really helps to see it as it goes through and as you can flow through it. Um, I think it’s very clever. And again, all this stuff is free. I you didn’t ask, uh, you are marketing to me. I mean, I see over there trying to warm me up saying, hey, you know, but generally speaking, this stuff is all free. Correct?
Stephen: [00:56:05] I mean, what did, oh, you do offer service. I knew there had to be a pitch somewhere in this thing. Um, and he has a unicorn. So if you’d like Unicorns, you gotta go check out this unit corn. Um, so there is a pitch at some point, right?
Stephen: [00:56:19] Right, right. And you have some big clients. I mean, you’ve have a work, Uber and Lyft, Macy’s, McDonald’s, KFC, uh, the White House fellows never heard of that one. Uh, that’s interesting. And wish, which is massive. Those people are massive. And so, uh, these are options that you guys, like you said, you’re an agency, so you’ve got lots of, um, opportunities. So if somebody really needs help and this is something that they’re interested in, you have, I mean, do you handle smaller sellers, smaller ecommerce companies?
Nick: [00:56:47] Yeah. So we were actually working on a, a package design specifically for some smaller sellers that don’t need something as custom but want to dip their toe in this and start seeing the benefits of it.
Stephen: [00:57:00] Hey, have you thought about what the ideal customer is, um, for, you know, or when does a company ready to use this? I mean, how big was Jerry’s nuthouse before they got to this? So
Nick: [00:57:12] I think the answer to that is more in terms of, um, how much traffic do you have and how many. So if you want to start, like I said, abandoned cart is a great place to start cause that that really does drive revenue. And then from there you can justify other use cases. So if you’re getting enough abandoned cards, um, if you think about your email abandoned guard, how much that money that drives. Now if you’re getting like 10 abandoned carts a day, that’s, we’re not going to move the needle. But if, if you are getting a hundred even and we can recapture 10% of those, how much is that going to help
Stephen: [00:57:50] and other services that looks like you guys can help with getting that traffic. At least the way I read this because I see all the SEO and that PPC and all that kind of jazz and had words.
Stephen: [00:58:08] Okay. So if somebody is thinking about, so if you’re listening to this and you’re sit back and saying, okay, I want to move off these third party channels in some way and eventually have my own audience and my own loyal group of customers. I mean cause that’s, I mean when you want to build a brand, I mean it’s, it is, you know, of course you want to be where the market, you want to sell it. That was Gary Obese advice to me. Steve, you want to be everywhere, right? You want to be everywhere. That was just get to ask them a question. And so to me this is a, a is a good example of this would allow you, if you do this right, to build your brand or your loyal customers and engage with them.
Nick: [00:58:42] I think so. And really we’re seeing just in general, people are moving towards messaging platforms. It doesn’t have to be Facebook right now. That’s the place to be. But other, other companies are going to start opening up. Like give us an example. Yeah. Google, um, little dinky company, right? Check. Exactly. Uh, we also are seeing this from apple. So apple has opened up to select business partners for I chat. So I, business chat is, has bots on it now. Um,
Stephen: [00:59:14] Amazon has this, something similar. There’s a way where they actually have a messenger. It’s a, it’s a, I just heard about this. It’s a preliminary, I mean not everybody can get into it, but you can literally ask, your customers can ask questions of you and it pops right up on your screen.
Nick: [00:59:29] Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I think this is where the whole market is moving because that’s, that’s where customer preferences are starting to shift toward those messaging type platforms. Uh, and I think it’d be smart to get in as early as possible in not all just Facebook, but look toward those other companies opening up to the public
Nick: [00:59:59] Yeah. And if you start now you can kind of work out the kinks for your business, find out what works in messaging as a channel and then transport that, that skill of knowledge to Google, you know, Amazon, et Cetera.
Stephen: [01:00:14] And you know, Steve might sound like a fanboy because this stuff is really cool. That’s it. I don’t benefit, but I think about it this way is, at least in my experience with my, my old corporate world, these things, when you get into them, you don’t know where you’re going to use them yet. You might not be sitting here saying, all right, I’ve got a great place for this. But when that opportunity comes along, you’re going to be in a position to be able to take, oh, we could just have the chat Bot handle that. We can have the Chat Bot handle that. Um, to me that those kinds of things, at least in my life that has done that has served me well. I’m learning this stuff. I didn’t get hurt yet. That’s for sure.
Nick: [01:00:46] Yeah, that’s 100% and I think that’s something we’re definitely seeing in voice chatbots. So like, I’m not going to say the name cause it’ll go off, but Alexa, oh yeah. All of that. Like, so that’s the case for those. Now Cha like messenger chatbots, we do have some proven use cases that we talked about, but voice 100%. It’s interesting. Nobody knows if it’s really going to generate revenue or what the great use cases yet.
Stephen: [01:01:12] Hmm. Uh, somebody, one of my employees brought in when Alexa, now I have it, they give it to me. I speak a lot and I’ve gotten a couple of these things as gift. They’ve never come out of the box and somebody put one in and now I must admit, I love it. I mean it’s, I know they’re listening. I don’t, it bothers me, but I must admit when I want to listen to Tom Petty, I just say Alexa, play Tom Petty and boom up the accounts. You know, it’s so cool. I mean it really, really is. And so when I say Alexa, order coffee, right? Like you’re saying. And so that Opportunity, oh dude, very, very cool. All right, so if somebody wants more information, so mind heroes.com is the website that I went to and I made it, it, that’s where, I mean, I’m telling you there is tonnage of articles on here and I’m going to read some of them because they’re free. I liked the price. I do. I’m just going to tell you that nick. I like that price. Um, but there’s a lot of background information about all this stuff and you can start to figure it out. And what I also appreciate there some visual stuff that has some links on it so I can kind of follow it through. Um, what’s the best way if somebody wants to follow up and ask some questions of you. I mean,
Stephen: [01:02:31] To Nick at mind heroes. All right. Awesome. Okay, so I’m gonna ask you my last question. I always ask the same question. Um, you know, and I, I don’t know how you want to answer this. That’d be interesting. So you know, my goal with my podcast is always for people who get stuck, right? They, they, they’ve had success there. Their things are going well, but generally they didn’t make it to the fulltime time or they didn’t make the full time income. They bought themselves a job so far and they’re trying to push past it and they get stuck. Right. It just seems to get stuck. What’s your advice for getting past stuck? And it doesn’t have to be chat bot related, but I mean, what, cause this has to happen to you too.
Nick: [01:03:10] Yeah, that’s it. That’s an interesting question. I think that the biggest thing that has moved the needle in my business is relationships with people. So I know it’s funny we’re talking about all this AI side. Second, he got a robot, don’t you? You have a robot. But yeah, the thing that I appreciate about chatbots, et Cetera, and it’s led to conversations with people. It’s to facilitate relationships, to make people’s lives easier and to make the connection easier, especially in my case because it’s a higher ticket item, but you only automate to a certain point. The rest I think is really creating these relationships. Like, thank you for having me on the podcast and you know, that sort of thing that I think that alone has, has been the biggest impact in my business.
Stephen: [01:03:55] You say this, you’ll never know who you’re going to learn from, you know, and you never know. I mean it. And so I’m with you. And plus it’s just more rewarding in life. So very, very cool. So, uh, I’m going to have the links out there, mind heroes.com, uh, his emails, nick at mind, heroes.com. Um, check out, check out some of this stuff. There’s reading, uh, stuff. There’s lots of, uh, information there and I just think it’s a great place to start and reach out to nick. He’s offered, uh, to talk about this stuff. If you’re interested. Uh, nick, I want to wish you nothing but success. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Great Guy. Super Smart. And he could see why he’s doing so well. Um, this is so neat. I mean, it’s just so fascinating where the world’s going and you get a a front row seat, you’re participating in it.
Stephen: [01:04:39] And so, you know, be that outlier. Put your head down and do the work. If you heard Alan Walker’s interview, I mean, it’s really what his separated him. You know, why he’s having success is because he’s doing the work he used to coast. If you were a coaster, I coasted a lots of times I’ve coasted. That’s not the way to really get to success. Um, that’s a way to plot along. And be average. You want to be above average, so put your head down, do the work, go out there and to that mind, heroes.com start reading these blog posts, read, read, read, study, understand it, and then apply into your business and execute really well. Reach out to him or me if you need any help, e-commerce dot com e-commerce,
Cool voice guy: [01:05:18] momentum.com take care. Thanks for listening to the e-commerce momentum podcast. All the links mentioned today can be email@example.com under this episode number, please remember to subscribe and like us on iTunes.