344 : Matt Cline – Rise up out over under whatever it takes to make it selling on Amazon
Tough story from a tough kid. But man do you hear the “Can do/Will do” attitude in his voice? Do you hear the success at any cost in his voice? Did you hear the gratitude in his voice? See the formula:
Attitude + Gratitude = Success
Mentioned:
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Transcript: (note- this is a new tool I am trying out so it is not perfect- it does seem to be getting better)
Matt: [00:00] I think the reseller community has been very cool. I just found out last year that there is one like on instagram and stuff, so just kind of seeing everyone else’s numbers is, is very, it’s like a very good competitive kind of thing. Uh, it pushes me to do more, um, and I think naturally you want to do more obviously, but just seeing that it’s possible, like so and so’s doing it like you can to kind of thing. So
Cool voice guy: [00:26] welcome to the ecommerce momentum. Will we focus on the people, the products, and the process of ecommerce selling today? Here’s your host, Steven Peterson.
Stephen: [00:39] He wanted to talk a few moments about some sponsors scope from seller labs. Um, when’s the last time you created a listing? Right? And when you create that listing, you’ve got to come up with the keywords, right? It’s all key word dependent. I don’t care if it’s a private label or wholesale. You’ve got to get it right. Well, what’s the best way to get it right? And if you’re selling a similar product that’s really successful, you go and you take and use their keywords and that’s what scope does for you. So phenomenal tool brought to you again by seller labs. The leaders in technology when it comes to Amazon, right now, they are just crushing it with all their products, but scope allows you to get that listing right. Get ranked for those key words as fast as possible. Therefore you get the sales. So go to sellerlabs.com, forward slash scope.
Stephen: [01:28] Use the code word momentum. Save a little bit of money, get some free key words to test, try it out and see if you see an improvement. If you don’t adjust, what’s cool about what I love about a seller labs is that you then message and say, Hey, I didn’t get this right, tyler. Hey Jeff, this isn’t working right. What am I doing wrong? And Boom, you’re going to get the help you need and that’s what you’re going to get from seller Lamson. And it’s a very special group that had been very. I’ve been very fortunate to be connected with them. And again, I look over time they’ve delivered every single time, you know, same thing I could say for Karen from solutions for ecommerce. I mean, she’s been carrying my account for a couple years now, um, and our account, my wife and I, and she really does handle things for us.
Stephen: [02:09] Um, I mentioned, uh, just last week we created a new listing with, I forget how many variations, but again, all the flat files uploaded done as I needed. I pop in, so she’ll send me a template, I pop in some information and then boom, it’s handled, await. These pictures weren’t done right, blah, blah blah. This UPC, Nita poom modified adjusted. And again, the communication’s been phenomenal too. I get an email back saying, hey, this was done or this, you’re missing this, Steve. Hey, you got to do this. So, you know, we had those challenges too and that’s why I like working with somebody who’s been doing it. I’ve been doing it for a long time to do, you know Karen also does listings for Ebay. Yup. Lots of them. So if you want to build out that channel, which of course you should, it’s q four, you should be selling everywhere you can, um, Karen can help you with that too.
Stephen: [02:56] So you gotTa tell her I’ve sent you. So you’re going go to solutions four forward slash momentum. You’re going to save 50 bucks every single month. You’ve got to save that $50. But more importantly, you’re going to get an inventory health report. Um, did you just get hit with monthly longterm storage fees? Well guess what? If you haven’t, they’re coming. You want them to get that inventory right and she can help you with that. You got to tell her I sent you again, solutions, the number for ecommerce forward slash momentum will get you into that. Save the 50 bucks. Get that inventory health report though. That’s really, really important. Get that going right away. And I don’t want to miss my coach when it comes to retail arb or online or when I have a question. And I do. Not that we don’t, we don’t really do much of it anymore, but when I do have a question, I go to Gaye Lisby because why?
Stephen: [03:39] Because she’s really, she is a coach. I mean, she’s really phenomenal, but you also puts out a daily list and you’re going to get that list five days a week. You’re going to get tons of leads, the number of, uh, agreed to amount that you’re supposed to get. She at least she usually gets to those in the four days and then the fifth day seems to be a bonus most of the time. Phenomenal Group, small amount of buyers where this list is going to. And the best thing is the nuggets that you learn. Hey, why is the red one better than the blue? One? Gaye can help you with those questions. I saw, hey, I got, um, I got to the dreaded letter about a brand. Here’s the, here’s the way you approach it. Hey, receipts, how do you, what’s the best practice? I saw her leaving instructions, teaching me the accountant how to do a better job with it.
Stephen: [04:24] And it’s phenomenal. So it’s gay. Lesbian. I’m a million dollars selling, um, I’ll have the link in here. You’ve got to use, um, my, my link and it does help me, I don’t want to say it that way, but um, it’s part of the amazing freedom with Andy slamming Iran Hirsch corn and nate’s lamins so you know, you can trust. Okay, so come out to the website, take a look at it, and you will get a savings and you can get two weeks free right now. Only through my link. You get two weeks free. Try it. You don’t like it? I get it back off. But right now is the time to make money. Get cashflow going right now. And so join you. Get two weeks free. The only way you’re gonna get the two weeks for these. If you use my link, it’s on this episode. Come on out and give it a try.
Stephen: [05:05] You will not be disappointed. Again, you’re going to see me in there. So reach out if I can help you too. Let’s get into the podcast. Welcome back to the ECOMMERCE momentum podcast. This is episode 343. Matt Klein. Now I really, really enjoy talking, um, and I probably talk a little too much and I’m sorry Matt, because I overpower the conversation a little bit sometimes, but I get so excited when I see somebody so young figuring it out and figuring it out and this isn’t uncomfortable to say despite his circumstances. And I mean he, he’ll tell the story. Um, he had some challenges in his life, but he overcame them and each point in his life where he figured something out and he took responsibility and didn’t let others be responsible for him, that, that was the growth moment for him. And it’s so cool. I get so inspired by so young, uh, who has so much to offer and he’s not even getting started.
Stephen: [06:02] I mean, to me that’s, that’s the destiny that he has, is that he’s just getting started and he’s got so much potential and, and he’s so humble about it. It’s just very, very cool. It’s a very cool story. Very, um, he’s having a lot of success, um, because of himself because he understands that and I just think it’s so cool to see. And as a dad, I get, I get, I do get a little choked up about it because it’s just so cool to see somebody rise above their circumstances. A very inspiring. Let’s get into the podcast. Alright, welcome back to the ECOMMERCE momentum podcast. We’re excited about today’s guest because he comes with a story out, you know, just want you to think about this. You have a story. I have a story and Matt’s going to tell his story, but I think I think that he brings this story to this business. I think it helps them in this business because I think it helps with focus and I think that each of us, rather than avoiding our story or trying to forget our story or being challenged by our story should embrace the best parts of it or the parts that really make you better and then find other like minded people and share it and hope that they’d benefit too because usually they do and that just helps you just be a better person. So I’m very excited about this. Welcome Matt Klein. Welcome Matt.
Matt: [07:18] Good. So good to be here.
Stephen: [07:20] I’m doing well. I mean, is that an unfair statement? Does that make you uncomfortable? Thinking about that, as I said that, I’m like, I hope he doesn’t feel uncomfortable with that statement.
Matt: [07:27] No, I’ve got the thickest skin. I swear. Um, nothing really makes me. I’m uncomfortable or offended or anything like that. How old are you? Twenty three.
Stephen: [07:38] Twenty three. And you’ve got thick skin at 23 now. Most 20 something years old, Steve. Fifty something years old. Don’t have the thin, uh, the thickest skin. Still worry about what other people think. Oh, somebody’s going to like this. I don’t know, you know, what am I, what about my parents? Kinda what are they going to think? Or my uncle, the rich uncle. Was he going to look down his nose at me? The successful cousin, right. That, that’s hard, man. That’s hard. And at your age it’s really hard, isn’t it?
Matt: [08:09] I think it was a, as a kid and I think, I think a lot of it, you know, going into high school, um, most of the kids, pretty much all of them are worried about what everybody thinks, what everybody’s wearing, all that kind of stuff. But I don’t know, man. I think once I got into college and I think once you kind of start making a name for yourself or finding what you love to do, I just, it doesn’t even matter anymore, you know, if you’re happy for me it’s, I’m just, I’m happy man and no one’s going to take it.
Stephen: [08:38] Don’t, don’t take that away. What, what, what are you happy about? Because I think that’s important. What are you happy? I mean, when you think about happy, what does that mean to you?
Matt: [08:46] Uh, I think just gratitude man, you know, really just doing what you love. Like, you know, just resell it on Ebay and Amazon is so fun to me and I think really it’s just finding the product. We’ll, I’m sure we’ll talk about it eventually. But for me sourcing is so much fun. It’s not a job. I just, I truly enjoy doing it.
Stephen: [09:08] So you never know what they’re going to get in and when he left, that’s it. The treasure hunt. When you think about that skillset of sourcing and you, you have a knack for it, obviously you’re having some success. Um, what is it, if you had to describe your secret sauce, what is it that makes you a pretty good sourcer? What is it for you?
Matt: [09:28] Well, I think I started out. I just started buying the stuff that I liked. I’m not saying that I’m, you know, I’m, I guess I’m not the best, uh, example for the market, but uh, and the athletic side of clothes and stuff like that, I’m going to buy what I would wear. And ironically itself. So,
Stephen: [09:48] so you, you are, you are your own customer, right? So that’s what. And there’s a pro tip right there. So at 23 year olds often have your pro tip. If you’re a customer, if you’re a buyer and you see a bunch of your friends buying, that might be a product you might want to source because the market as you and as your market and if you pay attention, if you’re in, especially if you’re in a group and you start to see trends and you pay attention to them and if you are comfortable talking about it with them, that is a huge opportunity. The keys then you have to be a good negotiator or somebody who can figure out ways to get it at the right price to make a profit. Right? Right. Exactly. All right, so, so your seller, so bring people up to speed. So you sell any band you sell on Amazon and you’re having success. You’re 23 years old. Um, but you came from a challenged background similar to me and in some ways with a single mom. So you’ve had some challenges in your life. Um, do they define you when you think about it right now? I mean, when I read the story, it, it, it almost does define you a little bit to me.
Matt: [10:52] I think, um, I think, I think yes and no, I kind of feel people won’t like hearing me say this, but I kind of feel like it’s almost like a branding a cattle, you know, how like a farmer brand that no matter how far you go and no matter how high you climb that mountain, that’s what you kind of, what you were and where you came from, so that’s never going to leave you. So it’s just a chip on the shoulder and I actually kind of take pride in it to be, to be honest.
Stephen: [11:22] Um, it’s uh, it gives me the chills when you describe it that way. It really does because I think it’s very accurate, right? It never leaves you, right? You’re always going to be, um, you can’t rise above it now, rising above it. I think the problem is what people think of rising above it is financial only, right? I mean that’s usually what people see, right? Is that, oh, it’s financial or it’s that college degree that people are like, well, you know, match the first one in my family to go to college. Well, that’s cool, but if he’s working at starbucks because he got a degree in something that I wanted them to get, how did I help you as a dad? Did I help you advance your life in my generation, that’s what was done. And there’s a whole bunch of 50 in, I guarantee a whole bunch of 50 year old, 60 year old people listening to this right now are shaking their heads saying no kidding.
Stephen: [12:13] That is absolutely true. Um, that doesn’t make you happy, right? That just prepares you for the life I wanted for Umat and yet that’s not you. And you know, thinking about that, that would tell me that I probably don’t know you well enough, right? As a dad. Um, I wouldn’t know you well enough. So anyway, that’s a little introspective on me, but it’s just, it’s real for me to think about, um, that you were happy at 23. I’m very, I’m very excited about that for you. Um, because it’s, it’s just cool. You know what I mean? Because think about your 23 year old friends. How many of them hate their job already? Most of them already though, I mean, dude, they just graduated from school or whatever.
Matt: [12:55] They already hate their job or can’t get one. Right. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting and I always, um, I’m really fascinated by the market and just, I’m not a real, like a straight a kid, but I just, I love like analytics and um, I think personally from a 23 year old’s perspective just going through college and then watching all his friends, um, you know, fill out job applications and everything. I feel that the bachelor degree is now like the high school degree and now the master’s now is like the bachelors that used to be. So now most of the kids are starting to get a master’s because the bachelor’s necessarily isn’t the right way or it’s not the best way. Like I guess everybody thinks they’re going to get a job automatic and I’m seeing so many people struggle so hard to find a job. And for me I’m lucky but I’m doing my own thing. But at the same time I think, wow, I’m in their shoes with them kind of thing. Going through these job interviews, calling them, how’d it go, you know, um, what was the starting pay, Yada Yada. So it’s just very interesting to me. Um, how you, most of the kids you really need a masters. I think it’s shifted a little bit,
Stephen: [14:12] right? I think it’s absolutely the determine it used to be, you know, yeah. If you had a college degree or you didn’t, that was the determinant. Now as you’re saying, it’s an advanced degree versus a generic degree. The other thing I think is a big issue is a lot of the degrees have gotten really generic. So when somebody says, Steve, I want to go into business, I’m like, please don’t take a business degree. Don’t take a generic business quarter degree, go take an accounting. Now I’m, I’m a partial new accounting, but accounting degree, you’re going to take almost all business, but it’s going to transfer across every single industry. So no matter what. But if you go and you want to work in business, you have an accounting degree and it’s just such a strong degree for any type of business and anybody you want to go work at a bank and you got into county to rate your in, you want to go work in insurance, do you want to sell stock? All those things. Urea and you’re prepping, you want to sell real estate. You’re prepared. When, when you thought about what you were going to be, what, what, what did you think you were going to be? I mean, I know you’re an athlete and you’ve been an athlete. I mean, did you think you were going to make it
Stephen: [15:13] to the football, to the NFL? I mean, is that what you thought?
Matt: [15:16] Uh, yeah, to be completely honest, yes. And I think so many people have the tunnel vision that even if you say, hey, you’re probably not gonna, make it or your chances, small, it doesn’t matter. Like most of these kids are thinking now I’m going to go into the league. Like that’s what I’m working for. That’s why I show up. So that’s a very interesting topic too, um, but after your first year in college, especially playing like football or something, you realize like, okay, you see the best player on your team and when the season’s over he doesn’t even get an invite and you kind of measure yourself to him or her or whatever and realize, wow, this is going to be harder than I think where they, the best player in your mind
Stephen: [15:58] or statistically when you think about now looking back, were they the best player?
Stephen: [16:05] do you get what I’m [inaudible] to get my question?
Matt: [16:07] Yeah, I think I’m probably just ability wise just because you’re matching up your practice and right next to them or you’re going up against them and you’re either overpowered or not as fast or you know, whatever the skill set is. So I think it’s, yeah, it’s just very interesting.
Stephen: [16:23] So what’s your advice then? So, you know, parents that have kids that are in sports in her saying, hey, you know, mean for you that that athletic scholarship got you through college. I mean, so that you can’t downplay the value there. Right. That’s fair. I mean that there’s value there.
Matt: [16:38] Yeah. The first year I did and then I actually, yeah, I transferred back home and just went pretty much academic. But I think the advice I’d give is, you know, you, you really can’t tell your kids, um, they have to figure it out on their own and you gotta gotTa let them go out and find out for themselves pretty much. Um, and it might cost $40,000 for the first year, you know, if it’s a division three school or whatever, but um, it’s just a very hard lesson to learn, but they have to realize it or else they’ll regret it their whole life thinking, oh, I could have played football somewhere or basketball or whatever.
Stephen: [17:12] I have two stories related. This one, my younger son who’s still in college, she’s finishing now and he’s a year behind because he went to a different school and then felt a calling. He went, ended up going to a Christian college. But the bottom line is the degree he changed too, is such a good fit for him. And it wasn’t. And he couldn’t hear me say, Hey, I don’t think this is the right thing for him it was. That was it. And he changed and it cost me a bunch of money, but it’s, it’s so cool to see him now fall into himself. Right? So figuring out, as you say, figuring it out and now the confidence. It’s like a switch was turned on. All of a sudden it was like, I don’t, I don’t know what it was. And it was something that you, a dad want to help prop them up.
Stephen: [17:52] But I’m so thankful that I wasn’t able to prop them up. I think in the long run it’s probably prepared him for life. My second story is this, a friend reach out to me this past weekend and he said, hey, how close are you to blah blah, blah. My Alma Mater. I’m like, dude, you remember I went to school there undergrad and graduate school. His daughter’s looking at it and he’s telling me about the program she’s going in. I’m like, uh, you know, I went to school there. I don’t remember them ever even having that. And you know. And so anyway, you know, my advice to him, he’s like yesterday, if she won’t listen to me, and I said, well, you know, maybe have her sister talked to her, maybe she, as you say, she’s going to have to figure it out, you know, you could force it and then they might go against that advice, right? They, they buck go against it. So my two little stories related to college, but I don’t want to lose this because you took advantage of college in a way that I don’t see people. What was it that turned for you when you realized about this twitter account? What was it that, that made you get motivated there? Because that’s a weird. That’s weird.
Matt: [18:50] Yeah, no, that’s a good question. Um, so I have a twitter account. It’s at the motivator five. I created it when I was a junior in high school. Um, it was kind of cool because I kind of became like Batman if so, to speak because nobody knew it was me. So, so I think in high school I had, after two years I had like 6,000 followers, or maybe $8,000. Um, and it was just funny interacting with like the people at my high school because, oh, did you see a guy with 8,000 followers retweeted me and stuff like that, and they had no clue that you were poor. They have no clue
Stephen: [19:30] that you came from a, I’m gonna this is awful to say because I’m looking at myself a broken home, right? Yup. You no clue because you stepped in. Uhm, give me, you give me the chills man, because you became somebody else and it allowed you to that add anonymity. Ooh. Did you, did you get bolder with that? NNN anonymity. I keep saying that word. It’s a tough word. I mean, did you get bolder like outside of your shell, the person you want to be?
Matt: [19:57] Yeah. Yeah. I think you’re right. It, it just took awhile. I think it was very interesting. Um, I started, you know, I, I went to school, I went to a nai school called Lindsay Wilson, so it’s like a division to um, and you know, I played football and I built a twitter account. So, but yeah, just being behind the mask on that, you know, we built, like I told you, we built it up to 110,000 followers. That’s not a big, that’s not minor. So it. But it was fun though too, you know, I really enjoyed it and I’m just tweeting motivational quotes and stuff. It’s something I’ve always. I had a high school coach that would always, um, have a quote of the day and I loved it and I thought a lot of people were like that as far as adults go, but a lot aren’t. So I’m seeing that as I’m getting older. But obviously there’s a market with 110,000 followers and it’s also been interesting because twitter was, I mean that was back in 2013. So from 2013 to now, you know, twitter has declined rapidly. Uh, I think I’ve actually lost like 17,000 followers because they’re not on twitter anymore. So it’s just very,
Stephen: [21:10] very interesting. Well, let me ask you this because it. Did you feel like if the real Matt Klein was out there on twitter and it was Matt Klein Five, you wouldn’t have hit that $110,000, do you know what I mean? Because they would’ve seen a, you know, he’s not, he’s not, he’s not that guy. He’s not that guy.
Matt: [21:31] Yeah, I think so. I think yeah, there was just a deeper motivation there and I guess it, I guess you have to understand like, yeah, it was a lot of work. It was set up differently back then, but basically I got to 10,000 followers and it was just a snowball after that. I mean every month was about five to 10,000 new followers. Wow. And um, we would, well I say we always say we, but it’s me as a company, I always just say we, but I would follow a thousand people a day and then after two weeks I would unfollow the people that didn’t fall back. So that’s kind of how we built it. And it’s just, yeah, it was crazy. And then the ad revenue came in a little bit. And so,
Stephen: [22:19] so a lot of work, dude, that’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of effort and everybody would say, well, Geez, you know, can you show me how to do it? Right? Well, yeah, you want to put in the thousand hours, right? That’s the challenge most people are not willing to put in. So I sit there and I think about the things that you pulled away from that. And for me, the powerful message there is you invested in others by putting out those tweets to help inspire others and you gained so much from it. I think there’s a, a lesson, it’s a, it’s a, I see that in the outliers that I interview is that that’s the common theme. Give without expectation and you benefit every single time. And it’s very, very cool. And if I was your dad, I’d be proud of yourself. I’m just telling you that right now. I mean not. Um. Okay. So, so you, uh, you, you’re in school, things weren’t going so well. Let’s talk about that for a little bit. Why? Why? What was it? Were you falling back to where you came from? Because you were defined by that
Matt: [23:17] now? Well, a part of it I think, uh, there was a number of things going on. One was, uh, I tore my labor from, uh, when I was a senior in high school in October. I got surgery in January and then I reported for camp in July and then our retort, my labor, I’m in September, August, September ish. So, you know, here I go through surgery and now I feel like, um, you know, you go from like, you feel like superman now
Stephen: [23:46] you’re nobody and someone has to open the door for you, so you kind of feel helpless. Um, so that was mentally just very challenging for me on the recovery from that. Um, but don’t leave that because is that so as an athlete where you moved your identity into that role period, now that you’re a broken athlete? Yeah, that’s, that’s the new definition. I mean, is that, is that what happens? I mean, because I’m not an athlete and anybody who’s ever met me would, would absolutely say that it’s true. I mean, pretty much I’m really, I’m on, put my shirt on, you know, for me, so for like two weeks. So I just felt like, oh man, I don’t know, I’d never want to go back to that again. So, and that was part of it. So it really tore my labrum and I thought, and they were like, well yeah, we can get a, you know, we’ll get an Mri just to make sure and we can schedule you for surgery.
Stephen: [24:35] And I’m like, I just had surgery less than a year ago and I look over at this other guy and he was a, like a junior, a senior there and he had, he had labor um, and rotator cuff surgery on his left shoulder and his right and he redid his right as well. So he, was he already a, he went through surgery and then he was in a cast and I’m looking at him going, nope, I don’t want to be him. So I mean, what’s the cost? Well, it’s a fair question. What’s the cost? Is it worth it? Especially who put it in your head that you were going to make it to the NFL. Is it, is it the glamor? Is it, you know, was it your mom said you could do anything because I think this is important. Um, I see so many parents giving everything they can to help their kid be the success that they want them to be.
Stephen: [25:28] Yet they don’t end in. This isn’t a criticism, they don’t have the ability like that other guy that you measured yourself against, right? The number one guy in your place who didn’t make it, right. It’s what is it only a few thousand people ever make it out of hundreds of millions of people and yet, you know, so it’s a very unrealistic expectation. So I’m just trying to understand that. What, what, where does this come from? I think it just came from dreams and hopes. I mean, you hear so many stories of um, you know, these guys that made it and they came from nothing abject poverty. So you come in from poverty, this is how you get out. This is going to be it. Yep. Yep. Okay. Alright. So, so school wasn’t going so well and you had to change and I mean, this was a conversation in the school had with you or your mom or both? Um, no, it’s, it’s something I told my mom. I also got a call from my sister and uh, you know, I was raised by just my mom and my younger sister, which is three years old, three years younger than me. And uh, she called me and she said, uh, she said somebody in the backyard and I’m like, you know, it was like, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that movie taken. Oh yeah. But it’s like, what? Someone’s in the backyard. I’m like, okay, I’m like,
Matt: [26:44] you should call the police, don’t call me. But, um, I, I told her, I said, are the doors locked? She said yes. I said, well, I said, go get a, the airsoft gun because we spray painted his air soft gun black and then we had a v for vendetta mask. I told her, I said, go put it on, grab that gun and just like wave it. And we don’t live in the, like, we don’t live in the hood or anything, don’t, you know, don’t take that. But um, there was just a lot of, a lot of stealing in the neighborhood man. And it was just really scary to get that phone call. I realized I’m like, you know, now my house or my home is a target, you know, there’s no man or a male in the house. So it’s an easier target. So that’s another reason I’m like, that wouldn’t have happened if I was there. You know what I mean? So,
Stephen: [27:30] so you had to grow up right at that moment. That was the change for you to say, hmm, you know what, it’s time for me to man up and be the man in both the two women in your life. Yeah. That’s be the, you know, there’s going to be awful. And I said, I don’t want to say that, but it’d be the man that somebody should have been. Right. So anyway. All right, so. So you go home, a school wasn’t going so well for you anyway, right? Wasn’t, it just wasn’t working. So. So go home. What changed when you went home? What was it that all of a sudden that there was a spark again?
Matt: [28:04] Well, there’s a number of things. I mean, I went from a school with 2100 kids to a school with 12,000. Uh, I went from a class size of 20, uh, where I could get like one on one time with their professor and got to know him really well. And then I had my biggest class. My first year was 350 kids, so I never talked to the professor. So stuff like that. And then on the home side, my mom, I told my mom that I didn’t want to work while I was in college because I wanted all my focus on my grades. So at the first college I proved my theory correct. I got a three point eight GPA and I was on the principal if I got the letter and really thought they mailed it to the wrong person. But uh, then when I got back to I transferred to Wright State University.
Matt: [28:50] So it’s after the Wright brothers and it’s a big division one, but I had a one point two GPA I think after my first semester and they’re threatened to kick me out. So my mom, I forgot to tell you that my mom, she made me get a job when I came back to help out with the bills and around the house. I’m like, okay. So I was managing all the inventory at Mcdonald’s. I was ordering their truck and to be honest, I had a great boss. I really liked working for McDonald’s as dumb as that sounds, but I had a good boss so I learned a lot there. But um, picked up another job at a longhorn steakhouse and I was trying to be a server that because I figured that would be where the money would be. Um, so I’m working two jobs. I mean I’m only working 30 hours a week and there are some people that can do it and do it as far as school and job or work, that’s not me. So
Stephen: [29:46] is it a focus issue for you that makes it. I mean, now, now that your fulltime reseller, do you notice that, that if you’re not focused on one thing or if you’re distracted or maybe this is it, if he finds something else, you enjoy more and you’re not doing that. It keeps you distracted?
Matt: [30:04] Yeah, I think. I think that’s a little bit of both. I think it is a part of a focus issue. Um, I think I had adhd as a kid. They just never diagnosed me.
Stephen: [30:14] Well then let’s take that to current. I mean, so how do you stay focused because you’re selling and you’re selling on Amazon, you’re selling on Ebay and you’re having some success and you’re growing. I mean your business is almost doubled year over year, so. So when you look at that, what would you say is giving you the ability to focus now?
Matt: [30:31] I have one thing. That’s it. I don’t have school. I don’t have work. Well, work is my, my one thing. So. But you don’t have a girlfriend yet? I do more than one thing. Fantastic. She’s a team player, man. She’s, she’s everything. So she helps out. She lists and that helps with growth too, but um, but I just get to focus on one thing and then you know, she has a nine to four, so when she gets home at four, we dinner. Um, we’ll pick a day. We usually watch a movie, but most of the time we’re listing and she loves it. She’s just very hungry
Stephen: [31:06] so she sees it as a side hustle. So that keeps it interesting. So. So then you’re putting in more than an average eight hour day. Okay. So, and I think this is something to think about. Okay. And because I’m guilty of it, my wife’s guilty of it, this one, she could show a great. She listens to this show, agree that we do baby our second one much more than our older one. My older one, I was rigid. I was young when I had my older one, my younger one. Now I’m an old man. I’m like, eh, he’ll eat some dirt. Go ahead. No worries. Go ahead. Right. But, but the key is, is that, you know, why is it okay for me to work in 18 hour day and not okay for him if that’s his love? Right. And to me, I think when you’re there for 18 hours doing whatever you’re doing and you love it, it doesn’t feel like 18 hours, does it?
Matt: [31:54] No, it doesn’t. I think time moves fast and you realize, Whoa, you know, you had to take a step back. Like wow, it’s been four hours or it’s been, you know, six, seven hours sign for dinner.
Stephen: [32:07] And when you eat, it’s more rewarding I think to, you know, it’s not, I don’t know, there’s like an accomplishment thing for me. I’m all about accomplishment into these little, these little goals that I get to hit during the day. How do you, how do you, I mean, we understand now that your focus because you’re putting in a lot of time, how do you not let it consume your whole life now? I mean, especially if you and her, that’s all you do together. You don’t want that to become your thing at the cost of your relationship. You’ve now please don’t get offended because this is steve talking to because he’s in the same way that you came from a place that didn’t have a good relationship. Right? Is that fair? No, that’s 100 percent. Yeah.
Matt: [32:50] Fair. Um, and I think that’s, to be honest, my life goal is just to be a good dad and even greater husband. It’s very simple and uh, that’s just kinda what I want. So, but to answer your question, um, the good thing is she enjoys it too. So she, she doesn’t see it as work. She sees it as spending time with me. So it’s like, and I’m like, really? I’m like, okay, well that’s great then.
Stephen: [33:18] So it’s just a good setup. So, so she’s attracted to it to um, when, if, if let’s take you forward two or three years, what would life not in perfection because I don’t think there is such a thing for that moment in time. What do you think will it look like for you to wear where you can maintain this level of this current level of happiness? Let’s say it that way, you know, this is the most interesting question. Somebody asked me that last week and they said three to five years. I have no clue. I have no. She’s in your life. Okay. So that’s important. Um, you sound, you said you’re happy doing selling, reselling, Amazon, and Ebay. So is that going to stay in your life you think? Yeah. Okay. Continue. Just to try to grow it, but. Okay. That stays in your life. Um, what other things. Is your health still important to you? I mean, are you still in shape or you gained the football? Three hundred pounds that most ex football players gains. No fence to anyone.
Matt: [34:18] No, you’re right. You’re 100 percent right? Actually, I have like the million dollar Jean. I have the skinny jeans.
Stephen: [34:25] Oh Dude, don’t depress me. It’s going to go. This is where the conversation went downhill right here, right? This is the moment because man, I’m gaining weight, drinking water, sitting here. I’m gaining weight. I know I am. I could feel it. So that piece isn’t there.
Matt: [34:41] Yeah. I mean, we, uh, we work out a lot, but um, you know, I can not run for a month and then go run 10 miles and be fine and I think it’s, it might just be a mental thing. I’m not sure, but I haven’t, I haven’t put on weight yet and my father, uh, is really skinny. He’s got the skinny Jean, so I, I think I have it. I don’t know. We’ll find out. You’re right. Knock on wood. Do you have a, let me ask an uncomfortable question. Do you have a relationship with your father? Yeah, I do. Um, my father is, he’s the nicest guy, you know, he really is what happened with him and my mom, you know, they didn’t get along or something, whatever. I just see it from both sides. I’m very, very open minded. Um, my mom’s crazy at times and my dad didn’t want to be there, you know, at times.
Matt: [35:29] So that’s, that’s very interesting too. I’m, I’m not mad at them, but the problem is, you know, like um, the biggest challenge for me as a kid was I caught a really big fish and I needed to filet it. It was huge, like we’re going to eat it. Well we didn’t, we couldn’t afford Internet so we didn’t have youtube but I had to call them and say hey, how do I play this fish? And it’s hard to walk you through that because you don’t know what type of fish it is, you know, it could have been a catfish and that’s a whole different process. So. And then simple stuff like tying a tie and I had to go to the neighbor’s house.
Stephen: [36:07] So wait. So he didn’t he. Oh, because you had to call him as opposed to him being there. Okay. I get it. But he did help you. He did walk you through how to do it?
Matt: [36:16] Yeah, he told me and he’s very knowledgeable but it would’ve been better to just, you know, kind of be there and show me. So,
Stephen: [36:24] so, so what are you doing? I mean this, this and this. And people are saying, what does this have to do with reselling? I think, I think this is important, your, your life. And, and I say this about us and so tell me, well, I think it’s true. My wife and I, our, our business is such a big piece of our life and our life is such a big piece of the business that most of the time they just blend together depending on which one is needed. Right? So we’ve got granddaughters who need us, guess what the business goes and everything else goes. We go there. And then what’s cool is we can move back here and, and you know, kind of evolve. It sounds like you’re in that same place, especially with your girlfriend, right? Because she’s coming home and helping and, and you know, it ebbs and flows.
Stephen: [37:02] Um, I think that piece, that mental health piece, getting comfortable in your skin and identifying it that, you know, you’re a reseller or you’re in an ecommerce business, whatever you want to call it, it doesn’t really matter to me. Um, and the fact that it’s not a burden on your life. It’s like, oh, I’m an insurance salesmen, or I work at starbucks, or I’m at a warehouse employee, you know what I mean? Rumbled plumber in like looking down in shame rather than being proud because I’m a plumber man. I fix big problems. You know, you have that pride. I think that mental health is so important and I think generationally you guys are the first one to get it. I just, I, I’m, I’m excited when I meet somebody your age that gets it because you’re going to change everybody after you, um, because it’s not going to be a college or nothing. Right? Because college didn’t define you as you found out, correct? Yup. Correct. Uh, being a football player didn’t define you, did it? Nope. Nope. Uh, being a good boyfriend. A good son. Being a friend that defines you, Matt. Yeah. Now you’re on the money you do or Armani. So, so let’s talk about selling. I’m your model now. Um, you’re doing a lot of shoe stuff, plus students some, um, plus still doing some thrifting and stuff like that too.
Matt: [38:27] Yeah, it’s a very interesting. And so now I’m full time right? So I was in college, I just graduated six months ago or whatever, and now full time. So adjusting and just, it’s a lot, you know. Um, well what’s your expertise
Stephen: [38:41] station? So when you say it’s a lot, what’s the expectation versus what you’re experiencing and who’s setting that expectation? Let me say it that way too. Um,
Matt: [38:50] I think the, our community has been very cool. I just found out last year that there is one like on instagram and stuff, so just kind of seeing everyone else’s numbers is, is very, it’s like a very good competitive kind of thing. Uh, it pushes me to do more and I think naturally you want to do more obviously, but just seeing that it’s possible like so and so’s doing it like you can to kind of thing. So, um,
Stephen: [39:16] but let’s not leave there because you just brought up a good point and I think it’s, you were talking about where you came from, it sounded like the only way you were going to get out of there was through football. You didn’t have any other capacity, you didn’t have any other frame of reference. Maybe is a better way to say it and now you see it’s an effort issue, right? Its ability, of course. It’s an ability and it’s an art, but it’s an effort issue.
Matt: [39:42] Exactly. That’s cool dude. Yeah, no, you’re right. That’s a good point. I guess I didn’t think about that. That’s a really good point. When you’re
Stephen: [39:51] change your family, that’s the perspective you as a dad has to bring. [inaudible]. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off there. I just, I don’t want you to miss that because you got to keep hearing this because if you don’t have your father in your life in a deep way, you’ve got to keep hearing this. You’re not defined by being a football player, right? Because all the football players that you went to high school with and went to college with. What are they all doing football anymore, right? That’s right. Okay. So that’s not it. I’m being rich. I meet a lot of rich people who aren’t very nice and not happy. Right? So that’s not it. Um, and we’ve already talked about the father, you know, mom relationship thing, you know, to be the right person, you want to be there, and so those are the things that should define you and then when you show the capacity that you have, I mean, did you, did you know, you had these abilities in you to be successful in this reselling world? I mean, these skill sets that you use every day, did you know you had these in you?
Matt: [40:49] Um, I mean, I think so. I think athletics has a lot to do with it. Um, interesting. Uh, just because you get there and you realize, okay, so and so’s better. Okay, how do we get better?
Stephen: [41:01] Well, okay, wait, stop. So you’re measuring yourself. So this is going where you said when you get inspired by looking at other sellers, post their numbers. So you see it the same way in athletics. You Go, you realize you’re not the best. There’s Bob who’s better, therefore you’re going to take steps to raise your level to Bob. And so in an ecommerce world you’re doing the same thing.
Matt: [41:23] Yeah, pretty much. I mean, that’s, that’s a good representation I guess. Um, I guess I’m not depending solely on it though, but definitely, you know, seeing it’s possible and it’s like, it’s like running the 40, you know, you want wanna, you want to run a four, three. Well, if I’m a I was a four or five one, so it’s like, okay, well I need to get faster. How? Um, and then you just take the steps. So as. So is that a reverse engineering thing? Yeah, it is.
Stephen: [41:50] You got a college degree, didn’t you look at this? I like this is, you know, because it’s right. You’re, you’re saying, okay, I need to shave two point, I don’t even know what a 40 years, I’ll be honest with you. So you’re going to shave two to a two point something seconds off. I get that much. And what steps do you take? Right? Because there’s five parts to that. If there is, I don’t know that to be true, but. So then you work your way backwards and so you’re seeing that in reselling. Walk me through that. How do you see then in reselling?
Matt: [42:15] Yeah. So how can we, how can we scale what, uh, what products can we add? I’m just watching the market. What’s selling more and far as the sneaker business goes? A Adidas is crushing it right now. They’re doing great. I’m seeing I only sell Nike. Okay. Well, why don’t we sell Adidas? Why are we not selling at this? Um, and just trying to work through there. And then the one of the most beneficial classes I took in college, the three were accounting, finance, and then management as far as um, input, output, like process improvement and stuff like that. So I took that and took it and threw it at my business and then found a bunch of stuff that I can improve just because through that,
Stephen: [42:58] because that’s important. Right? So I think that’s a powerful statement right there. So you throw it at your business. Walk us through an example if you got one.
Matt: [43:06] Yeah. So, uh, so we were forced to read this book called the goal. Um, and I took a bunch of stuff from that book. I’m fascinated by making things faster or smoother, whatever. So like for my inventory system, I’m part of this comes from working at Mcdonald’s in the stock room. They have rolling racks so they have everything on a metal shelves, you know, and it’s like, it’s got to be like 15 feet high, but all of the inventory rolls and you can just spread them apart to walk down a certain aisle. I thought, well, you know, if you sell something on Ebay and you can’t find it right and you got paid already, but you just got to ship it out. It’s like, oh man. So I was having some of those problems. Um, so I built a rolling rack inventory system and it was completely just an idea out of my head, inspired from like a Mcdonald’s rack and thrown it down like I’ve never seen nobody do it. So like I got to build this. I like, I drew it up and then me and my buddy actually built it and it was crazy to see like a vision become reality. So just a rolling rack system with everything more organized, it holds more inventory so you can grow. I’m just very efficient. It, it’s crazy.
Stephen: [44:27] So that’s process improvement. It’s really what it is, right? Taking a process and you’re improving it. You’re, you’re tweaking it. Reducing touchpoints. Any of the pain points, um, is that, is that the advice then you would give people as they’re sitting here listening, take a look at your business. I mean, when you look at Your Business, was this the number one pain point you had or was this the low hanging fruit?
Matt: [44:51] Um, I think it was my biggest problem to be honest.
Stephen: [44:54] Last inventory. It’s a big problem, especially as you scale. It does become a problem.
Matt: [45:00] Yeah. And I don’t know about for you because you got to have big warehouse now, but for me, I guess I’m, I was in a, you know, husband had government, low income house that was 800 square feet. How much can we really grow? You know, my mom was getting mad because there was close in the, uh, in the big room or the living room. So that was kind of a, okay, what do we do now? So, and then moving it into. I had a mentor that has a big house that he was, I’m renovating, so he had a bunch of empty rooms. It’s the craziest looking house, but we put all the inventory and four rooms and just like I was saying like the inventory racks saves so much time because instead of walking from room one to room four to find one thing, it’s all right in front of me and it’s crazy.
Matt: [45:47] So how long does it take you to find the item? How long does it take you to ship the item and how long does it take you to list the item or even find it before you buy it kind of thing. And I guess that’s all knowledge. Just knowing what sells, what doesn’t. I’m the shipping method. I think, you know, Ebay very, a fairly recent. They switched to the bulk shipping tool and I love it. It’s crazy. Um, before I was, I was actually trying to use stamps.com. I was copying and pasting the address off Ebay because I was saving a little bit more money than Ebay’s label and copy and paste in it and then print it out. Uh, just all kinds of stuff. Um,
Stephen: [46:29] yeah. The last time for you more than covered that additional savings, right? You’re like, you’re working for $2 an hour at that point, right? Savings.
Matt: [46:38] Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah, a little bit more if there it all adds up. But um, and then the label thing, one thing I did want to say was, um, you know, like when you make a shipping label, I was doing it, um, you know, I was using the sticky sheets. So at first I was using a paper, I was cutting it out, taping it, and then I upgraded to the sticky labels. Uh, I don’t have one of those diamond printers or whatever they’re called yet, but I use an inkjet and it works just fine for me right now. But I made my shipping label smaller. They don’t have to be a half a page, so it saved me on ink. Saves me on paper now I can do twice as many labels on one sheet. Just little stuff like that. It was just always. It’s always about figuring it out and just improving it and making it faster, better and more. Save more money. I think the best
Stephen: [47:29] description I’ve heard, it’s a continuous improvement, right? It’s continuous. It. Do you ever think you’ll hit nirvana and be perfect? I don’t think so. Well, because here, you know, one of the things I want to talk about because I think this is a good example, the Nike Adidas Story, so if you were one of these heavy Nike sellers and I’ve got some friends that are amazing at it, so millions and millions of dollars and I couldn’t do it. I’d lose interest in 10 seconds, but anyway, they are just skilled at it, but something outside of your control changed. Right? And I think that’s one of the things that you’ve got to learn in this business is that things are going to change. Eba is going to change. They’re gonna get another CEO, right? Current guys there who knows how long to publicly traded. I’m sure somebody be unhappy with earnings and they’re going to make another change.
Stephen: [48:16] They’re going to bring in guy, right, or a girl and they’re going to make a change and they’re going to try to improve. And so the things that you, the processes you built in that are gonna change outside of your control, Amazon’s going to change, a Nike is going to change, they’re going to make a decision for whatever reason, with whatever they did and there was a reaction and so all of a sudden the fetus is able to capitalize on this. Right? And as you said, who knew they would be the hot thing? Well, and there was everybody working there, I would say they knew it, but you know what I mean. So by having these processes in place, you can continuously evolve and improve. When, when, when Adidas became hot, were you able to just adapt them into your business model because you’ve had all this other stuff worked out in advance?
Matt: [49:04] Uh, I actually didn’t. I didn’t adapt the sneakers in yet. I’ve just been watching and they developed an interesting newer, um, what are they called? Crap, I’m the data just basically the bottom of the shoe, the sole of the shoe is like a miracle foam or something. Yeah, I can’t think of the name off the top of my head right now, but I’m the wrong guy to ask him. I don’t know anything about it, but. Okay. So I get what you’re saying.
Stephen: [49:28] So you’re watching it so you haven’t pulled the trigger on it yet because you’re still having success in the other stuff. That’s interesting. Um, all right, so looking forward, right? You’re, you’re growing, you’re growing at the pace. Are you happy with the pace of growth that you have?
Matt: [49:45] Yeah, I am. That’s a good question to A. I think a lot of people get really frustrated and don’t feel like they’re good enough. I’m just based on comparing themselves to other sellers. Right.
Stephen: [49:54] Your whole life, right? You’re back on the field, aren’t you? You’re back on the field and you’re measuring yourself unfairly against that guy that you realized didn’t make it. What’s cool to me is that the story, you already know the ending of the story. The best guy doesn’t always win, right? Yeah. That’s neat. That’s true it though, because it’s so true and the fact that you’re comfortable with your numbers for where you are right now. You’re working on a relationship. I mean every guy who’s a dad right now is sitting back and saying, all right, this is a kid who’s going to make it because he’s putting value on the right things with the right amount of effort. You’re willing to do the hard work, but you’re putting it into all these different things. It’s a very, very cool. You call yourself addicted. This is your term addicted man. If you’re addicted. I mean, do you know anybody who has this much enthusiasm for what they do? I mean, I mean I guess there are some outliers, but generally speaking, let’s say general, that makes it easier.
Stephen: [50:54] I’m trying to think. Well, it look around your neighborhood, look around your friends, look around. You know, we’ve, we’ve all had those teachers that you knew just they were meant to be teachers, right? Because they had it. They just can inspire and Richie, right? Or I think there like a Tony Robbins, that guy is doing what he was meant to do. There’s no doubt in my mind that guy is meant to do what he’s doing. Or Dave Ramsey or a, uh, a, a Joel Olsteen. I’ll go there. Right? I mean, those, those guys are doing what they are meant to do. But outside of that, most people are kind of spiraling, not, it’s trying to figure it out. They are, you’re right. And yet you have figured it out for now. At least for now. Well, I think it’s very, very cool. And I think, uh, I’m, I’m inspired because you’ve been able, you know, you still have the chip, that shoulder, that tattoo is there for life as you say, right? It’s there. You’re not going to get rid of it that you are, you did come from an environment, um, and it probably defines you a little bit. Does it, is it. I remember. Who was that? Andy Stanley. He did a thing on guard rails. Does it keep you guard rails, that background? A guard rails? What do you mean by that? Well, meaning that there are some things you’re not going back after, there’s no way because you’re not going back there anymore. So it kind of protects you from making some worse choices.
Matt: [52:17] Yeah, it did. Um, you know, I, I, when I grew up in, when I went through high school or whatever, I never, never tried any drugs. Uh, I’ve never even drank and people always ask me why. It’s like I don’t see nothing wrong with it, you know, like, cool, if you want to do that, that’s fine, but that’s not going to get me to where I need to go. And I see all the people from like in the situation I grew up in, they don’t make that choice and they never make it out, you know, and it’s just, it’s just very sad. But yeah, the guard rail is there, uh, and it’s very strict. It’s not going to just bend or break over. It’s there. So
Stephen: [52:56] is that important in your relationships then to. Is, do you, do you make sure that you surround yourself with people who have similar mindsets because you know you are who your five friends are, right? That’s what they always said. The 20 percent of each person that you hang with, is that important to you?
Matt: [53:11] Yeah, it is. Um, we’ve had, uh, unfortunately, you know, you go through high school and a afterwards and then some of your best friends in high school just, you know, aren’t your friends anymore just based on the past they’ve taken and it’s just kind of sad. I’m just with drugs and stuff. But um, yeah, you’re right, you know, you really are the five friends you hang around the most with and my, my five friends are just very actually very kind of diverse. Uh, everybody has like their very strong in one area and we can the other so together it’s like you got everything you need kind of thing
Stephen: [53:48] and you can, you can lean on each one in their individual strengths or abilities when you need to and vice versa. So that’s pretty cool. All right. So, um, if somebody has some more information or wants to find out more about you, what’s the best way to get in touch with you through instagram? Okay. And to what is that? So I got, I got your twitter at the motivator five, the number five and I’ll have that link there. And so instagram is what
Matt: [54:14] I’m at Matt Klein to and it’s a client with a c, so it’s Cli one and just the number two.
Stephen: [54:21] Okay. At number two. And that’s where you post a lot of inspiring stuff and again, I think it really helps you to understand where that’s coming from. And I think uh, there is the ability to rise above it, but it is a mindset issue. I mean that’s the other thing that I noticed a lot. It, it’s truly realizing that you can, right? You weren’t shown that you can, you kind of had to earn your way. The school of hard knocks. All right? So the goal of the podcast is to help people move forward, help people get past the point of stuck. And I think if there’s anybody who’s earned the right to help people get past the point of stuck as somebody who was, who quite frankly should have been there, you shouldn’t be a success man. You shouldn’t. I mean, to be fair, I mean don’t get offended by this, but to be fair, you know, you didn’t come from the best place. You didn’t. You came from a broken home and Steve is talking about himself, so don’t, don’t get offended because I’m looking inward and all those things. And yet you rose above it. So I think you’ve earned the right to be able to help people get past the point of stuck.
Matt: [55:21] Yeah, I think you’re right. Um, I put on my graduation cap from college my sophomore year, I had to do a project and I think I just really gained a lot of self awareness from it. Um, the project was on statistics and we got to pick basically what we want to do it on. So probability statistics. So I chose, um, kids that grew up in low income housing in the success rate was very interesting. Um, I couldn’t find the article like three years later, but I’ll never forget the article. It was, it was a study out of Baltimore and it was like 300 kids or something. Um, and they tracked them from second grade all the way up to like 25, what they found was eight percent or seven percent went to college, but only three or four percent graduated. So initially I thought, wow, you know, I’m, I’m, I got to be the three percent. So that’s what I put on my, uh, my graduation cap was the
Stephen: [56:24] four percent. So yeah, um, I walk around with that chip, but, you know, it’s just interesting, you know, you have, that’s what I tell all the freshmen in college is okay, you’re here, you know, do something with it, make a name for yourself. And um, college is what you make it and you don’t necessarily have to go to college to be successful. But I think college really did develop a lot of tools, uh, and me personally. So I think it’s a very interesting topic in that area too. Well, the ability to execute. I think that that’s the thing, the fact that you’re taking these skills that you’ve learned in and a lot of it in college or even the Mcdonald’s experience, I don’t care where it was, those experiences and then you apply them to your existing ways to improve this continuous improvement. To me, that’s the thing I’m taking away from this conversation that you’re a continuous improvement.
Stephen: [57:19] You have been a continuous improvement, Matt Klein for a long time and you are continuously improving and I, I just phenomenal so and I wish you nothing but success. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Great Guy. Uh, again, I think all the dads are saying, man, that’s, that’s a good kid. You know, that’s somebody who’s figured it out and to be that young to figure it out. Um, he’s on a path for, you know, just, just 10 years of doing what he’s doing and man, can you imagine where he’s going to be? I mean, just that consistent, you know, continuous improvement, his, his term, that continuous improvement that Matt is very, very cool. I hope you got inspired by that because I sure am. E commerce momentum.com ecommerce momentum.com.
Cool voice guy: [58:07] Thanks for listening to the ECOMMERCE momentum podcast. All the links mentioned today can be found at incomers momentum. Doug, come under this episode number. Please remember to subscribe and like us on itunes.
