265 : Heather Havenwood – Digital Marketing for your eCommerce Business happens now and maybe Old School works again
Heather has some spunk and gets right to the point. You need to be marketing your business all the time! You need more than a presence and she gives you the tips to get more than started. He techniques are “old school” and she believes that is what can separate you in this crowded information age. She lays out a plan to get you started right for 2018.
Mentioned:
Heather’s Website for more information: Heatherhavenwood.com
Heather’s Podcast: “The Win“
Sponsors:
Gaye’s Million Dollar Arbitrage List
Transcript: (note- this is a new tool I am trying out so it is not perfect- it does seem to be getting better)
Stephen: [00:00] When I think my sponsor today they really make the show happen. I just couldn’t do it without them. You know Siller labs in scope you’ve heard me talk about it a ton of times because I’ve used them so many times. The beauty is you know you have a product you want to put the right keywords because it’s all about keywords right when you know that the key word is what people are searching for right. When you’re thinking of buying barbecue gloves what do you put in there that’s what you want to figure out what are people searching for. Well school allows you to do that because you get to see the number one number two number three seller in that category in that group that are similar products you get to see what their words are. Well that’s the key. There’s no reinventing the wheel here.
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Stephen: [01:26] Yes you’ve heard me say a bunch of times but I mean it because our Q4 was spectacular because of all the variations for a particular line we had that Karen entered. Seventy eight of them I believe and now I’m adding a bunch more because we’re not done. I mean it’s Tom a year going to sell right into January February and March. So she’s getting ready to add a bunch more. That’s the power of having that team member. That team works overnight. Quite frankly they work different hours than I do. She sends a file she’s XTI fill in these particular fields shoot it back to me and boom they get it done and you get it and fast and it just as allowed us to grow. It’s that silent team member that don’t call of sick they just handle things solutions.
Stephen: [02:08] The number for e-commerce dot com slash momentum’s going to save you 50 bucks and she’s going to do that all important inventory Health Report. She only does that for my listeners only through this deal. You’re going to save 50 bucks and you’re going to get that inventory Health Report solutions for e-commerce dot com slash momentum. Get ready for them too. Here now is the time. Very excited. Hill coming up pretty soon and she’s going to talk to you of why it’s so important to get ready for 2018. Hey Gala’s B’s group. That was awesome this quarter and I can’t believe the stuff that was posted in there I saw so many people have so much access and credit her group with having incredible success. Yes it’s still close. However they’re letting you get in through my link on only my link.
Stephen: [02:55] And so I have a link out on this episode that will allow you to click through and get on the waiting list and guess what you’ll get right in. So it’s a special list. The other thing which is cool is there’s so many people learning because gays a teacher was a teacher still a teacher in this world now and we’re very lucky to have her. And so gateless group it’s awesome awesome group. Send her a note that I sent you. And you’re going to get in and it’s just going to set you up for real success for 2018. I don’t want to miss Go Daddy because they’ve been so good to me. I just so excited that they’re a sponsor of the show because I put so many domains through them and it’s so cool. So if you go to try go daddy dot com forward slash momentum.
Stephen: [03:35] You’re going to save 30 percent off your purchase eco daddy. I’m going I want to go back and do my purchases over because I’d like to save that 30 percent. Hello. But I am getting ready to buy a couple more domains again. When I see a big idea or if I’m bringing a brand new market I’m buying that domain. You’d be a fool not to so try go daddy dot com forward slash momentum save 30 percent. Awesome. And finally today grasshopper the grasshopper is the app you put on your phone so you can run your business from your current cell phone. Don’t add a second cell phone appear larger when it’s put a low call vanity number if you want or a local 800 number to make you appear a little larger on what you are.
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Cool voice guy: [04:34] Welcome to the e-commerce board will focus on the Beebo the products and the process of e-commerce selling your host Steve Peters and welcome back to the e-commerce supplement and podcast.
Stephen: [04:50] This is episode 265 Heather haven would h to H. That’s what we came up with that moniker in there. We’re going to stick with their lot of energy. Lot of energy. But man she can deliver what’s very cool is and we get a little bit in her story but I mean she’s brought a product from zero to one and a half million in like 12 months 18 months by launching on an Amazon launching individually. Back then it was good commerce and really it’s about driving traffic. And I think that that’s the thing that I want you to listen to in here. There’s a couple really cold ideas that she drops. She gives you techniques but her catalog idea. It blows my mind. First off the reference when you think of Amazon or you think of eBay or you think just use it thinking of a catalog and you use the example on an airplane.
Stephen: [05:39] Right. Looking at that catalog the sky mall it’s a perfect visual example. That’s what Amazon is right. And that makes perfect sense. And it’s the world’s biggest and most current. But how do you stand out in there. So that’s where she starts with and takes you through that but then her idea about once you have that customer sold trying to win them over as your customer. In a way that doesn’t violate terms I mean I want to violate terms of service and very worried about that. Staying within that framework and then to market to them is a very genius idea. And then once you have a customer and they bought from you selling them somebody else’s product. There’s nothing wrong with that and it’s like oh that’s when the light bulb went on for me and it’s like oh you have friends that sell complimentary products could you work together to sell them. Steve’s product in addition to your product right.
Stephen: [06:30] And if you do I will pay you a fee a percentage aside. Ha I think that’s an eye opener for me in this interview and I think she really really smart lady really did a great job and I think there’s a lot here.
Stephen: [06:42] Let’s get into the podcast.
Stephen: [06:45] All right. Welcome back to the e-commerce I’m in a podcast very excited about today’s guest because she is going to give us the answer. I’ve been looking for the answer we all been looking for the answer for so long and well it’s not all just sizzle there’s some stake here. How about Heather haven would welcome Heather.
Heather: [07:05] Thank you. That was pretty good some says a little bit of a Texas forever. For some reason I had to go there. I don’t know what to say.
Heather: [07:12] I always tell my clients you know Ruth Chris works at a steakhouse never love it. Always. All right so that’s perfect thank you.
Stephen: [07:19] I love it. We spent 2000 dollars on dinner there one night. Oh my God.
Heather: [07:23] There were only six of us. Will make all the sizzle. There’s 2000. Oh my God. I’ve got it. Pretty good sales right. Yeah it is good. But I’ve never been back. No
Stephen: [07:35] I’d have to pay for it myself. And I just I can’t go back and be like I don’t mean any more. But still I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t do it though. OK. So you if you had to describe yourself what do you say. You know Heather you know I know you said sales but what would you say.
Heather: [07:54] You know honestly Stephen I’m a marketer. I come from the information marketing industry since 2001. I produce over 450 seminars my first line online was 0 5. I have a master’s degree in marketing in 2010 and my second million online was just this last year from 2015 to 2017 18 months to one point five. So I’m a marketer I drive things so it doesn’t matter what the thing is I just drive it. I’m a driver. If
Stephen: [08:20] you are selling sparkplugs or Lamborghini’s it wouldn’t matter right because the concept is the same.
Heather: [08:27] Yes like steaks Ruth Chris I mean it’s a cow. Come
Heather: [08:29] on cow. I mean what it’s like. But the physical the cow that you get a cow in my head no it’s you’re right. It’s a cash cow.
Stephen: [08:39] Why can they charge 2000 dollars for a dinner vs..
Heather: [08:43] Well I don’t know if that answer really quick. Well I don’t know if Burger King sold this Burger King sells me like beef because it might be the sizzle and Ruth Chris.
Heather: [08:51] I use that example the times it’s funny you said that the sizzling with Chris is about if you watch the commercials.
Heather: [08:56] It’s more about the ambience of your family and the memories that you’re making together.
Heather: [09:02] It’s all about that as I am about the cow now.
Heather: [09:05] The bottom line is you’re going to create together as a family. Romantic yeah whatever.
Heather: [09:10] That’s the sizzle. You never sell all the steak you always sell. This
Stephen: [09:14] is all we sell the sizzle. So does that mean. So you know most of my listeners are preinterview we talked about this are mostly Amazon sellers or eBay sellers right. And they’re selling and they’re having success. They want more success there but they’re scared to death right. They’re scared to death because they’re playing on someone else’s platform right somebody else owns the field when they change the players anytime they want and they do. You know for various reasons political whatever. Right. Think of the Googles that everybody who is selling with Google and then they change their algorithm right. And then you know their whole world collapse. I’ve had a ton of people on that have said that same thing happened. So they’re scared to death that that’s going to happen. Can they can get sisal when they don’t own the platform.
Heather: [10:01] They can’t they can’t I mean it’s they’re dealing with. Look here’s a deal. Amazon eBay. It’s the. Their catalog sites. So let’s let’s go look first of all I’m a response marketer. Let’s go back in the day. This is pre internet people pre Facebook old all day.
Heather: [10:16] You’re not that old.
Heather: [10:17] Yes go back to Star Wars days. OK so 2001 which is not that far away. But let’s just go back to remember when used to. I did. When you traveled in a plane and you’d have that big sky mall. You know the catalog Yeah. OK. So that’s the new that’s the Amazon. I mean that’s what’s Amazon’s replace that. And so what did they do. Right. First as a captive audience because they’re sitting there for two three hours four hours. But also it’s all about the copy. It’s all about what that thing makes them feel like. I mean the day this is back in 2001 through 2000 at least six or seven I stopped it and you can’t make a phone call. They can’t even get you to purchase it right then. But that was a multimillion dollar business. The point is is that it’s a catalog and you have to think of like a direct response marketer where you are competing in a catalog environment.
Stephen: [11:08] OK. So pictures writers communication copying. It’s the sizzle. You’re back to the sizzle again.
Heather: [11:16] It’s that thing that says hey here’s why you need to buy this Steve you need a cow.
Stephen: [11:22] I remember some of the crazy things that you would see and that was always the thing that took me away that magazine because I’d be like what somebody sells and somebody actually buys it.
Heather: [11:31] Yeah I mean yeah for years and years and years I mean every single major. Well all of them I mean I don’t remember really even one company that didn’t get it. Here’s what’s interesting about it. Think about this for a second. Back in the day Delta American and United and Continental when they were there. Why did they had those magazines. They were big affiliates. It was the super affiliate. Right. Because they all got like they got kickbacks so they knew by the phone number they knew by the tracking which company which airline basically sourced from this is old school affiliate. OK. So they knew and the companies got kickbacks.
Stephen: [12:06] I love it. So this is really really the exact example of today other than it being digital it really is. It’s
Stephen: [12:13] a perfect nucleus. It really is. But what you do now is is that they tested everything in that catalog. You know they knew what buyers Delta American versus United versus whatever Southwest and knew what kind of buyers they would tell the different buyer the sophisticated seller.
Stephen: [12:28] Yes do you.
Heather: [12:30] Yeah absolutely. They did different price points different. So here’s let me give you what I did in 2015 which is you know coming to age right is I sound old you some very old.
Heather: [12:41] That’s so horrible. Now I think I’m going to hang.
Heather: [12:47] I was I was on Facebook in 2007. It’s crazy. So yeah.
Stephen: [12:53] The good news is as I do come from old school so I know what it’s like to go from school to school and back and forth and I think it’s one of the advantages I have because you can still have that old process and understand what it really is. What happens is people go online and they get online marketing it’s not online is just a medium of direct response. And if you don’t see it that way you’re gonna get collapsed into oh my gosh I only have an Amazon store. If you look at it from a legion perspective and understand how customers buy and why they buy the new look from a direct response marketing and use and you use amazon you use Wal-Mart.com you use it the dot com and eBay to drive your own leads to basically get leads. That’s how that’s Haddrick response markers.
Stephen: [13:35] Think about it. Right. So go back to the catalog for a second if you had this like widget member they actually have this weird widgets or something in the catalog that was obviously sourced by someone else it’s not their company their drop shipping it pretty much right.
Heather: [13:47] But the moment someone buys that thing the owner of that company of that thing gets the lead so they don’t care at the discount because then they get to market that customer over and over and over again. So I think that way.
Stephen: [14:02] So let’s stop there. Second so Amazon customer who’s bought my water bottle I’m looking at my water bottle and I sold this water but it’s a beautiful water bottle. I sold it. They bought it right. But that’s not my customer. That’s Amazon’s customer. I don’t have any rights to that customer correct. You
Heather: [14:17] can’t you cannot e-mail them correct. You do not have the e-mail right. But you can get their address.
Stephen: [14:23] Well I can’t offer a warranty on this because this is really important to me that they get this waterbottle and that they’re happy forever.
Heather: [14:29] Right. You all warranty fine. But that doesn’t get you a customer. OK. So what do we do as a customer you can either say you can send something inside the box like they call it inserts for a percentage off at the next one on your own website. Why number one. Number two you actually have access to the address not e-mail address the physical address. You do have access to that. OK. Right. You do. So you send them a catalog.
Stephen: [15:02] And I’m allowed to do that within Amazon’s terms of service.
Heather: [15:05] Yes. Whenever we. Yeah. So whenever we did because we did Amazon as well as Shopify. OK. Right. So actually were commerce goes to if I were commerce first and what we did is that any time we did some FBA you know obviously but some of the stuff that we did is we did our own. We did our own drop shipping and we put a catalog in every single order you can insert and whenever I think that’s the distinction I think you just said it with FBA being separate from merchant fulfilled.
Stephen: [15:31] I think that makes perfect sense to me. Okay.
Heather: [15:34] Yes so you can do that merchant fulfillment but we also FBA but even we did B.A we still had access to the address and your first name and physically we didn’t have the e-mail we had a physical address so we would we would actually send them like a thank you card slash catalog.
Stephen: [15:49] OK. All right. And in a thank you card is absolutely legit. Because I mean that’s real. Hey you bought from me. I appreciated it especially if you have problems. Let me know because you want to know right. I mean let’s face it that’s really powerful. OK. So you would send them a catalog and then you would say hey not only do I sell water bottles. I sell straws. I sell hats I sell whatever whatever yeah on my own website.
Heather: [16:13] And when they come onto your Web site then you own the customer once you own the customer.
Stephen: [16:18] I mean I think this is another big failing that the people that I’ve seen gone and done their owns Shopify sites they don’t really take a customer service approach right you think of the big companies of the world. They know every detail about you right. The really sophisticated companies really help work through and track the customer data right and they really do customer service management system right. They’re really nobody’s really doing that well in my world when that’s that’s a mess that’s a mess right. I
Heather: [16:50] mean it is.
Heather: [16:51] It’s all about giving the customer the whole point of getting in business is to get the customer. It’s not selling that product ever. I mean Ruth Chris sells sizzle but it’s all about getting you in there. Having you stay there for a long time and having you come back as fast as possible because they spent so much money to get you in once they won to get you in the second time because then they make the profit the first round when they have you when you’ve never been in before. They’re losing money on you because a customer acquisition cost is so high. Once you come back just a second time they now are in profit this is the phrase I’ve heard the phrase customer acquisition cost. Walk
Stephen: [17:25] us through what that would mean any commerce or your old example whatever is Amazon Wal-Mart has use amazon for a second for conversation. Right
Stephen: [17:34] . You have a drop shipping company out there you have whatever your thing is maybe you’re doing 17 20 percent.
Heather: [17:40] I don’t know profit margin. You’re you’re maybe breaking even. I don’t know. But the point is you get the customers fast you possibly can. You cannot do e-mail. We know that we can’t get the e-mail address it’s already but you can get the actual address and you can send them a colleague aren’t insert inside the package. OK. And you can get them to come to an external Web site by choice to then buy new products and or opt into something for you to send them a catalog. Going back to this kind of thing you millennials out there. OK. There’s
Stephen: [18:14] this thing called mail I’m way too old to be called a millennial.
Heather: [18:17] OK. Not you but like there is. These people think oh males dead males not dead. In fact for me when I did this whole catalog thing is a buy and catalog. And them I was a part of the time was like this is crazy. We spent some good amount of money on this kind of long laid out. I spent a lot of time on the copy laid out all the products right. And it was about 10 pages. Nice heavy stock. It was evergreen meaning if we printed it today didn’t matter if it was Christmastime summertime or whatever it was evergreen conversation. Right. And we could send it out in inserts we can set it down to a list that we buy. We can send it out to someone present Amazon doesn’t matter where they bought it from we sent it to them and we would pay extra.
Heather: [19:00] Right. We pay extra for the insert we pay extra and they would dip into our initial cell. But what happens is the catalog was such a catalog that it would be one of those things just laying around the house. You know one of those so it becomes a coffee table thing and then that’s all of a sudden your products are sitting in the forefront in front of them over and over and over again.
Stephen: [19:20] So. So you want to stay with them. No I think it’s really smart I get it. So you’re talking something that people will hold on to so let’s use my water bottles example. So what would be the catalog. I mean I know it would depend on what else I sell but I mean logically if I’m selling water bottles what would be the evergreen content that you would recommend that I’d send to my customers. It
Heather: [19:42] would be information about why they should be using water and water bottles and education conversation.
Stephen: [19:50] So it’s kind of like that that blog post where hey you know water scarcity or water issues and wires helps or not even wires helps just why I drink more water right. Why
Heather: [20:02] you need to actually did this right. I bought something because I bought a name tag for. Some of our employees you know little name Tunsil middle name tank and they’re like six dollars OK. And they’re great. Their name right. Super cheap. OK. When they sent it to me. OK. They put it in insert and said thank you for your order and for your next one. Here’s our phone number. Here’s our email address. Here’s our Web site please go through us direct. They bought Miley and Nick I did and next time it was pretty much the same cost but they got majority of the money right the next time they bought that customer through Amazon.
Stephen: [20:40] So that’s the next level customer acquisition cost. Okay. And so you’re saying hey no matter how big your business is that you’re selling on Amazon or on eBay or a two year any of the cattle I love the Kellog reference I say that’s going to stay with me for a. No I just think it’s well it’s a well visualized anybody and I say Hey go look at a catalog. That’s what Amazon is. That’s a great description. It
Heather: [21:04] really is. It’s not aggregate. I mean because oh it’s an aggregator. I mean I know it’s a catalog. I think it’s a sophisticated catalog at this point.
Stephen: [21:13] Yeah very sophisticated. And so right from day one is that something that people that you recommend to people that they start doing.
Heather: [21:21] Yes it is possible. You don’t want to start building a customer acquisition list as soon as possible when you use Shotwell was commerce at the time.
Stephen: [21:29] Yes. How sophisticated was your customer. You know tracking system that Mary.
Heather: [21:38] We kept it really simple the beginning. When I first got started we worship the business model was going to work. We were the products were going to work. You know we just weren’t sure. I think that happens a lot. So we first started Amazon UK catalog. Pretty much came involved pretty quickly after that and then I built out the website. In fact thats not true. Kind of yes. So I built up the website the same time as an Amazon. But all the links are like Buy now. Went back to Amazon so if you went to our website it was kind of a catalog site but all the by the by links just went right to Amazon at first right. So
Heather: [22:14] I because I wanted to see you make money here is viable. And people like this. Okay look it’s working. Okay now let’s spend some extra time and create the shopping cart piece where you get our merchant count on it. So I just use the main your role right.
Heather: [22:29] I mean we out as more of a go here to learn more about us and by the way here’s our address or you know we get your address from you and we’ll send you a catalog. So it was just it was a very simplified site was a very big three for pages about us catalog. You know very simple.
Stephen: [22:49] But it was it gives you some legitimacy to people when they look and they see that you actually do have your own site and you actually have an address and everything else like. There are legitimate business I just saw it today.
Heather: [23:02] Hershey Foods. I’m in Pennsylvania. I’m not far from Hershey. They just acquired a company and they bought I think six or seven individual brands from this company they bought they bought the company with it came the six or 7. One happened to be skinny pop that was it Skinny Puppy popcorn. And there’s a whole myriad of different things. And I think to myself how many companies own a whole bunch of different brands. Right. And do they cross sell those brands. Do they do they capture the data and keep it in and say hey hey there’s a customer and she is now a skinny. Well she was a skinny pop customer. I know.
Stephen: [23:42] Good work. Now market chocolate to her. No I just wonder. I mean when you get to that level of sophistication I mean can you.
Stephen: [23:50] Can you or should you. Right from day one. Put those kind of things in place knowing that I’m looking at a bigger picture and I want to start filling it in immediately and it comes from that question of customer lead acquisition.
Heather: [24:04] So if it’s expensive to get a customer it’s more expensive now than it actually was before people like you know it’s it’s free it’s not free. You know let’s just be clear about that. It’s not free. All right so it is all about the customer acquisition. So yeah you get a customer and you can cross-sell them to either other products that your affiliate for or products that you own.
Stephen: [24:24] Absolutely. You just said something I never thought about. So you’re saying why if even if Steve you sell water bottles. Well Heather sells gym socks. You know I know if I can yeah you’re right. You crossed my mind until you just said it was like oh that’s smart.
Heather: [24:40] In fact back in the day back in the day back in the day it was one of my mentors to Thomas he had an insert here. And the CEO says he sells how to buy and sell tax lien tax liens had. So he would make all these inserts. And then he would call him like you like Steve. Steve Hey you have you want to buy and sell real estate that’s cool. That’s great. Tell you what. Every time that one of your products goes out can I put this in or I’ll pay for the insert right. I’ll pay the ends or. And if anyone buys your affiliate lingers on here you get 50 percent if they purchase as well and they get done.
Heather: [25:19] I’m sorry anyway. Doesn’t cost me the pill and thrown in there. It doesn’t cost that for Filmon house. You know you’re going pay for your paper I’ll write that check. So then now you have think about it so it do this one person for Steve. He did. Steven Bob and Don it you know Donna whoever.
Heather: [25:34] And now you have all these companies who to send to buyers buyers buyers. Keeps me and someone something they better gives them in the mail. They just bought something inside the box. The package is an insert for this guy to Thomasis product. They are a buyer. What are the chances of them actually buying something else pretty high this. And now and now Steve you know you’re the one who did this deal with Ted. Now you just got news got a check in the mail for you know three or four hundred dollars doing that and you’re like oh this is great you know.
Stephen: [26:06] So they were complimentary. I mean because I know a whole bunch of people right now the light bulbs are going off their head they’re like wait a second Steve sells water bottles. And every time he sells one he’s going to put a little catalog in there. And in that catalog it’s going to say hey if you also like to exercise maybe these gym socks and Steve doesn’t sell gym socks but I do and so therefore and then there’s almost like a quid pro quo. Right. So if I put them in for my customers I mean would you put them in my or who.
Heather: [26:35] I bet there’s a whole bunch of people right now doing that math saying there’s a mindset what I like my was we did magical hormones and some supplements high end hi hi hi science opponents.
Stephen: [26:44] A a good compliment for that would have been some estrogen blockers because we do that we also didn’t do like B C A’s anything like that Salomon’s we didn’t do because that would have been a really good complement. We just didn’t get that far but that would have been a great complement. Like hey tell you what good this company. Hey give us your answer. We’ll put it and therefore you will get a percentage of the time and purchase something. And by the way we do the opposite.
Stephen: [27:13] Here’s ours as well as I’m sitting here listening to this. I’m sitting here thinking about OK Isola kid’s toy and it’s very popular. And I can then market other things. I only have that one product but that doesn’t mean that I can’t develop a catalog. That’s really what you’re saying.
Heather: [27:32] Right. Absolutely. Amazon is anything. I think you’re pretty smart. All right. You get the just you just went up a notch in my world because you’re absolutely right. And they had a big catalog too. Oh good smart. Oh I love it. I did them a girl. I’m good at it. Oh she said it not me. All right.
Heather: [27:53] So I mean it’s really accurate true if you start thinking about it that way then you start seeing some compliment. You know you look at yoga companies and water bottles as a good one yoga match.
Stephen: [28:05] I mean just take a look. Stay with that one. Stay with that one. Right
Stephen: [28:07] . So it’s yoga companies ISO yoga mats and now water bottles and those funky music doesn’t have to be the same brand. So people like why we to get to putting people who smoke weed in there because of yoga people for the vegans. You know to get all that in there. But it’s true. It really you can really complement and you can offer information on all that right. That’s kind of part of it too. That
Heather: [28:28] content you are so so we always talked about and some in our world. When I used to do seminars around the country we always said the best thing to sell is someone who’s a participant in a seminar is what seminar because they’re already purchased the seminar. People always complain there and seminars are saying there’s 3000 or seminar and the like seriously you’re now selling me a 5000 dollar seminar. Well yeah because you bought ones we figured you’re going to buy another because you’re a seminar buyer. So it’s the same kind of conversation. Usually e-commerce is going to buy more e-commerce products however. However I would suggest you cross across it and do e-commerce with information. So it could be a yoga pants. And now you know ten dollar a month yoga classes. Why not. OK so you were raised in marketing and e-commerce can collide and go cross promotion so you can.
Stephen: [29:22] OK so let’s take my example to the toy. I have a really popular toy it’s really hot. I then could sell my whole KinderCare for lack of a better word right. Something else. It’s educational toy. I can sell educational services or I can put them in my catalog. Yes. Yes. You know think back to your credit card bill. Right. What used to come. I haven’t got one good credit cards. But what used to come in the credit card bill. All those offers right all those little things were they put in there for free. No
Heather: [29:53] they weren’t. Somebody paid for that right. No I’m cool with that. So there’s a thing called Value Pack and this is all tied up in the value of you see if you get value pack in the mail. You may or may not be open to it because you like you know it’s in there now but if you just sent me my water bottle I just bought me a yoga mat. I’m going to open that because I bought it and I’m going to see the insert inserts that you put in there because it’s my product. I’m going to open this box right. So you have to open rate at a higher rate versus like a value pack. Right. And
Stephen: [30:24] then you can have you know national companies in there because like you said though because they’re buyers so they’re likely to buy more things. Coke spends a visit to create a catalog print because this is a printed thing to get it printed profession because this isn’t something you want to do on your old mimeograph machine.
Heather: [30:44] For us the number of Hurtz inserts are like five minute by seven super cheap. I mean you can get them like two three cents. You know super super super cheap full Caila. We did full catalog and when I did full catalog it was eight by ten heavy paper glossy. I wanted this thing to what I call be in the bathroom you know what I mean for like months would be on the coffee table for a month or one of those. Right. So it’s just sitting there. And people enjoyed it versus just an insert. So there’s different definitely different. And we spent the time and the money to send it directly to them. You know it wasn’t cheap magazine or anything like that it was really heavy. So we looked at about it was about three dollars 325. OK. That’s pretty heavy.
Heather: [31:34] Yeah. Yeah. Now here’s the thing. I know FBA at one point we stopped doing FBA fulfillment because we looked at the cost of what they were taking and the cost. If we did it ourselves or a fulfillment house and how we could add the catalog it was we were pretty much like even that if we did the catalog ourselves right versus eBay right then we were able to and we’d lower the prices on these for the shipping. We were able to get the customer faster. So you have to do that but it’s just something to look at.
Stephen: [32:07] Well in today’s day and age you can do similar fulfilled Prime 2 which is new relatively new where you get the benefits of prime because that’s what people have or crime period. Right. And so you could do Sellar fulfill prime and still meet those requirements and get that benefit. And that might be an option that’s newer. So when you think about today versus five years ago right eight years ago ten years ago is it really different. I mean the way you’re describing it to me really isn’t. Other than the catalogers move from print to digital.
Heather: [32:43] Correct. Now things are more On-Demand meaning we want things faster. But that’s everything in life at this point used to be phone calls and now it’s e-mail within seconds. So that’s that things are happening faster. We’re
Heather: [32:57] getting the products faster but the I always tell you what’s called the Age to Age philosophy that I teach to all my clients human to human human beings haven’t changed that much and we haven’t changed why we buy how we buy why we think why we love Why We Fight Why We Hate haven’t changed. That’s why you could open up the Bible and read the story and get it and understand it because we haven’t changed that much. So yes are we buying online and getting the product. The next day or minutes two hours later. Yes that’s true. However at the same time. Why we purchase things why we go back to the same companies over and over again or the same loyalty door the process that communicated. H H we felt like human things are becoming so high tech that the more high tech we go the companies that go more high touch and more human to human. They’re going to be ones that are going to be a long girl a devotee. So the more high tech we go the more high touch the customers desire.
Stephen: [33:57] There was this deep hole that went deep well that’s why there’s h h.
Heather: [34:01] Later in the day there he would actually state that at least her age squared and was ahead of him. But it really is a human to human interaction. And I know that we’ve swung right for a long time. Amazon was just like get the products out there and just doesn’t matter what you’re selling. What’s happening now is that the consumers now savvy they know that and now what they’re looking for it’s not even about the brand it’s that aged H. Right. It’s that a human being behind this computer is their human being behind this company.
Stephen: [34:33] Well that’s a good question. So tell me how I only saw on Amazon how am I going to let them know that I’m real and this is a person or a family.
Heather: [34:44] So the first thing we did the catalog went back to that something that in that realm it could be Caligula or the first thing we did in the first page is but that’s somebody who belong.
Stephen: [34:53] But you’re describing to somebody who bought it and I want to retain them and I want to move in that scenario I’m going to take them from they bought my waterbottle now but to bring them in a long term customer I’m gonna sell them next waterbottle and every one of them.
Heather: [35:03] So why are 50 generations. You know the answer. Why is anyone that description. Not saying who they are. Hi my name is said that I sell water bottles and I have a family of four. Why in the world is no one saying that you should try it. I
Heather: [35:16] bet you get a higher converter if I’m sitting there looking at water bottles and I see that your name is Steven and you’ve got a family of four and you live in Pennsylvania and you love what you do and you and you’re looking right and you’re good looking. And I’m like wow that’s really cool I want to buy from Steven.
Heather: [35:30] You know it’s two dollars more than some company I don’t even know if it is even the United States I’m buying from Steven Peul do that all the time.
Stephen: [35:40] You see the really successful brands they do that.
Heather: [35:45] People doing that.
Stephen: [35:45] Amazon and eBay they are the brands are doing that but with smaller cell or third party sellers really aren’t. Although that’s still further. So tell help us tell a story. So tell us Heather’s story what would she be doing if she was a third party seller on Amazon selling water bottles or whatever she’s selling widgets or whatever you were selling before. How would you tell that story.
Heather: [36:07] It’s actually worth the copy on our copy and it’s me my fiance at the time and he was a chiropractor so he still has a chiropractor. And what I did it was only about a hundred words if that and it went something like this you know Hi my name is I my business my business partner is my girlfriend and I we started this business because we really saw that people were unhealthy in the world and we really wanted to help people become healthy. That’s really true. You know intimate and he’s like in my 20 years experience as a chiropractor. The number one challenge we found with aches and pains is that they’re toxic and these these products help release toxins. That’s it. I mean something like. That’s it. That’s the whole thing and that’s pretty much selling the company. And then we go into OK this product specifically does it right. So that’s what we’d say and all the descriptions.
Stephen: [36:58] So by doing that they human you listening to human nature right there you go.
Heather: [37:03] That humanizes humanizes why this company is out there what is it doing this is a human person. There are a chiropractor there. They have a passion. They’ve done something that’s making a difference because our products were really expensive for four four ounces of a inflammation product which was really potent very strong and really worked with seventy five dollars you. OK. Streamline expensive. So we had to really go that extra mile. Right because you could also get a pill of inflammation for under 30 you know. So we had to really differentiate ourselves of why they purchased us you know. And so it’s all in the copy and which goes back to this why copy copywriters. You know this goes back to advertising agencies and Mad Men what they were always the one paid the the most because copy sells but it’s still alive today. I can always tell when I go to Amazon and the pages are thrown up there. It’s unprofessional Copy that into the time to do a title. It’s all just cut and paste.
Heather: [38:08] Benefits of features bullet point bullet point. I can totally tell. I can also tell the ones that actually took the time to actually write something and continue to evolve and learning and making it improved.
Stephen: [38:23] OK so let’s take that that’s somebody who has their own product and they’re selling their own product. What happens if I’m selling toys from you know or wallets or water bottles from Columbia or their brand or I’m selling Nintendo video games or whatever I’m just selling I’m a third party seller meaning I’m buying it cheap and I’m selling it at a higher price and making a margin right. I don’t really have much to offer. All right I’m not. It’s not my stuff it’s not Steve’s product I can’t say hey. Me and my wife we made this in our back room. You
Heather: [38:58] know this is or you know whatever we’ll make and I say then make your company unique selling proposition. Because I look at the company all the time like the little you know the company on Amazon and click on it. The main they call the author the company that you click on to have all of these different stuff I was look at. You know what else are they selling and that’s that’s important.
Stephen: [39:20] It’s kind of a kind of company and my walking into if I’m a drugstore where I’m selling you know medication yet I’m selling.
Heather: [39:29] Does it look like they’re taking pride in their products or are they just throwing it out there. I mean there is a difference when you walk into a really nice VVS and it’s clean and lit and you feel good about walking through the store versus one that’s not.
Stephen: [39:44] Well then give me an example of a way with because I don’t get that. I mean I know what I know what you’re saying about yes but if I’m selling it I mean I’m saying if I’m selling toys and I’m selling water bottles and I’m selling furniture or baby baby stuff it’s not all related. Is that is that an issue. Is
Heather: [40:04] that what you’re saying. Are they taking the time with the listing or are they just thrown off one image and doing a cut and paste in the title or are they spending time on the listing. So
Stephen: [40:15] even if I’m selling somebody else’s product if I guess that’s the point is if I’m selling somebody else’s product even though I can make money out of it it’s a crappy listing I’m doing myself a disservice in the long run. That’s that’s what you’re saying. Yeah it’s all in the listing. OK. If I can’t control that listing because it’s not my product then I can’t fix it. They won’t let me than I probably should walk away from me. Is your advice right. I mean if I’m trying to create a brand right.
Heather: [40:39] I mean that’s that’s an issue. It’s all on the list and people don’t take the time I remember when I was on the Amazon. Right. I would sit there and tweak I tweak the first image than I would I would use different images I would tweak and see how the product prices went up or the conversion went I would tweak the listing. There’s a lot of things you can do in Amazon on the listing.
Stephen: [41:00] If you take your time like that 6 if you own the listing yeah you can do that. Yeah that’s the challenge and what my example was when you didn’t know the listing you were selling monobrow right.
Heather: [41:10] So that when you weren’t allowed to do here’s what you would you would walk away from monopoly if it was a crappy model.
Heather: [41:16] That’s not a business model that’s not a business. If you can’t control the listing and or the customer you don’t have a business. I mean that’s has been straight up. That’s just business 101 if you don’t control the products and or the customer. That’s not a business it’s not a sustainable business model right. You might be making money but that’s not a business a business. The context of business is that you either own the product and you can sell the product to multiple distributors or you actually own you use a product to get the customer to sell the customer more products and services that is called a business. Anything else is just making money. Okay.
Stephen: [41:53] Okay. And you’re making that distinction and I get it. But just be fair and I want it because I know a whole bunch of friends that are selling 5 million dollars making money and though they’ll do their 30 percent margin on that and they’ll make money now. They will tell you that it’s not sustainable they know that they could be shut down tomorrow. They
Heather: [42:11] understand however they’re making money while they can because you know the sun is shining so they’re shining and I remember when ad was used assigned to everything circles or just be just be aware the definition of a business is either uncustomary on the products or both. And
Stephen: [42:30] so your advice then for those guys who are just selling somebody else’s stuff don’t own anything is to own your own business. So well let’s walk somebody through that. So they’re saying hey I want to bring a product to market and I’m going to bring it on Amazon Shopify e-commerce Wal-Mart.com wherever how do Y. How do I stand out. So you’re saying it’s to catalog. Got to have the best ad in the catalogue. Back to that reference. I love the plain reference with that skiable. How do you stand out in that sky. All right it’s that picture. It’s the bullet points the future has benefits all that stuff executed really well.
Stephen: [43:08] Let’s let’s go back because you said different things when you’re on Shopify or in commerce. You’re on your own. You’re on your own store and you can control everything from the product listing as well as the customer when you’re on Wal-Mart.com or AC’s or is it that you have zero control of that. So there is a huge distinction. So when you’re in Wal-Mart or let’s just call the catalog sites Wal-Mart.com Amazon.com Etsy eBay those are the catalog sites you’ve zero control pretty much other than the listing.
Heather: [43:36] That’s the only control you have. So you have to spend extra extra time on the listing because that’s really your only control okay at this. All
Stephen: [43:44] right so again so that executing all those things perfectly there we’ll let you stand out against the next water bottle water bottle seller. Correct. OK. All right. Got that. All
Stephen: [43:55] right. And then when you’re on your own you’re all basically your own server or your own company. You know you’re in page you can then control the customer process. That’s a very different conversation. You know you have pop ups do you have an educational conversation. Why is your water bottle so different. What’s so unique about it. Is
Speaker 19: [44:11] there a story behind it. That is where you can start to what I call build the connection between you and your your customer. Why are you doing what you’re doing. Is there a story behind it. Are you unique. Are you us only or are you in India or whatever like you’d actually build a company and story behind everything. So what I would suggest if you. Once you get customer onto let’s just call it your own server aka Shopify e-commerce and you can control the process you want to start as fast as you possibly can with the story you know. Why are you unique. What’s the difference here.
Stephen: [44:44] Human to human. You’re right. Human is family the human upfront. Yeah I love it. Okay that’s helpful. No I think that makes perfect sense because again most of my listeners are going to be in they’re going to be third party sellers selling on Amazon or eBay. Right. A lot of them are developing their own products and they’re having some success. They want to go out and stand alone where they can choose the catalog they want to place it in. I love that phrase so they can pick and choose what catalog because today it’s Amazon’s 80 percent. And Wal-Mart trying to do something but who knows what it’s going to be tomorrow. And so by having that in place they can pick and choose the catalog. And you know I guess the other thing that I’m thinking about as you’re describing this if you do a really amazing job on Shopify e-commerce whatever magenta any of those you’d then have the ability to tell that story to every one of those customers in that catalog.
Stephen: [45:38] Right. So whenever that new catalog comes out you start selling in there. Then I just drive you back to my really really really strong storytelling site where I can do that human to human. So invest the time there I might not so anything though whether that’s not good is it. All
Stephen: [45:56] right. So you might not sell anything.
Stephen: [45:58] Well I mean so if I if I spend a lot of money putting up my own Shopify site and I don’t really sell a lot you maybe build the list though right.
Stephen: [46:08] I might be building. I mean I guess I don’t think I said it. I know I didn’t sell it. But my point was what I was saying was that I might not sell anything on that Web site yet. I’ve got a great story. I’ve got a great place where I can control the conversation control the conversation as long as I keep bringing people there. There’s value in that whether I sell anything or not on that site.
Stephen: [46:27] Yeah. So sometimes we would have even for what for a while we had like two buttons you know you could buy on Amazon or buy here. And the reason why we did that is because we understood at the time those FBA should be in price was powerful we understood that some people really want to use amazon and their credit cards already in there and they trust Amazon for their merchant.
Heather: [46:46] That’s fine. We get that. But they’ve now been to our site right. Of course we would Phillida our own products by the way so we would make a commission on that. But we would also make sure that they knew the story you know and then well the other thing we would do and this is something that we did don’t have to do. I think it’s very powerful. We had a big big time phone number call us. Call us girls and we had someone either we had phone numbers taxable as well as callable and people would actually text us and go hey I’m on your side of these questions. And you know we couldn’t make it or get back to them right away but we would text them back. Hey
Speaker 19: [47:23] that’s a great question we’re in the office on Monday. Can we you know whatever our Hagar’s our e-mail address are. So it’s that engagement is that age to age conversation. You’d be surprised if people actually called us from Amazon or called us because they found is on Amazon they went to our website and they called us because they like we don’t understand this here’s a question.
Stephen: [47:42] And then once they did that you probably had a lot more success and selling them on your own site.
Heather: [47:48] Let me quote from a thing called age to age. Right there’s a human.
Stephen: [47:52] This is really how this is really her.
Stephen: [47:55] And you know as I say here it’s funny I have a sponsor grasshopper and this is a perfect example of why a grasshopper tried grasshopper dot com slash momentum is perfect because they allow all those things you can customize you can do a vanity phone number first off you can allow text you can have it can go to you could forward it to anywhere to anyone at any time. All those things allow you to seem which used to be an enormous cost in this and it’s very inexpensive for someone to love.
Heather: [48:24] Oh there the places yes. So
Heather: [48:26] there’s I mean this is this is the kind of stuff that I do with my clients right. This is the kind of strategy and tactics and details that I work with. But one of that is give me one last strategy is the SS Talking about that. So I want my mastermind’s. I mean I really had this was this was a game changer for our business.
Heather: [48:44] We’re in a mastermind with a guy who his client was never say it right. The the law the law firm that the Mellis AVMA can say that the main one is that the disease of met the silly Olma.
Heather: [48:58] I’ve seen that commercial where they described a commercial of a Simeo I am saying you’re right. I apologize if you have it in your I don’t know what it is but I’ve seen it.
Heather: [49:06] So it’s basically you know they’re really trying to get people that potentially have this situation and then call a lawyer and then that’s how they make their money right. So they’re throwing this number out Culvers number call this number.
Heather: [49:17] So they for a long time was the phone number and then somewhere on their staff was you know you should probably try to make the phone number text available the like. That’s ridiculous. Now let’s get a tech does just try it. So they turned the phone number same phone number into. You can call Artex and they didn’t even say it. They just said call this number. People were picking up the phone and trying to text it and they were getting inundated. And they’re like oh my god we even think about that. So now they’ll say call or text this number because people nowadays they don’t want to call it’s too invasive. But they’ll text. Hey I just saw your commercial. Hey you know I just like your product on Amazon I’ve got a couple of questions. So they’ll do that and they’ll do it for the money whatever and so they had it they had their conversion numbers went out the roof it was really high. Way better when they did text message. And I’ll never forget that. And
Stephen: [50:08] so from that moment on and all the catalogs that all of our data and all of our websites and where we could if we could on Amazon someplace we couldn’t couldn’t we would say here’s our phone number call or text.
Heather: [50:21] That’s a powerful powerful tool and it is powerful because it is safe.
Heather: [50:25] Text is like an e-mail like oh I can text and they pick up the phone and they’re like what the question. And you could be in the moment is a Google Voice grasshopper. All those things can be done where you have an assistant somewhere else in the country if not the world. Texting back to you is number and engaging with your customer.
Stephen: [50:43] So that is like I’ve given you so much information know that’s a that’s a very big one I don’t even think about it but you’re right it’s safe. Texting is safe. It’s not like you have to talk to somebody in hear yes or actually tell them no text I could just stop sending right. And so it’s very safe to do so. You said you work with clients to help me. How small do you work for me because you know one of the things I can’t afford it I can’t afford it but I want this. I want to build a business. I just I don’t know what the investment is going to be. I’m just not certain. I don’t know what direction to go. I mean how small of a client to work with.
Heather: [51:17] Well I mean yes there are people that are startups. But here’s why I would say to that you know you you have to either learn it yourself. Is going to take a lot of time mistakes effort and money. Or you hire someone to shortcut it for you. I mean that’s just 101 right. So that’s that’s what I do. You know I’m a direct response marker come from an old school as well as a new school online marketing and I integrate I integrate online and off line marketing. And I work with clients no matter how big or small right to take them to the next level so I have clients are at 5 million. I have clients that are at 1 million. The other companies I’ve started with were all zero to one point 5 1 1 2 million in 12 months. So it doesn’t really matter you have to start with the right strategy from the beginning if not you’ll just sit there and you know what you’ll be looking 12 months back. Man
Stephen: [52:12] I should have done something in 12 months for you know think about how fast the world is evolving right. You see it harder than. Yeah and if you don’t start when when’s the best time to start yesterday. If you can’t start yesterday then it’s today. Right. I mean that’s really the advice you really have to love it. OK. Somebody wants to follow up with you. Best way to get in touch with you.
Speaker 20: [52:33] That is two ways they can go to the following You urinal and they’ll interact with my chat bot and they’ll get with me on my Facebook messenger and that’s ask Heather and dot com that’s ask Heather and dot com you’ll interact with my facebook message app and have a conversation that is actually my direct connection you can text me through it.
Stephen: [52:54] The Messenger app and I can talk back to you or you can go to Heather haven with dotcom and Eber right hand corner it says call with Heather click on that. Get out my schedule we can have a conversation. Let me look at your site. Let me see what’s going on no matter if you’re in Australia New Zealand Europe it doesn’t matter where you’re at because online strategies are the same around the country and around the world. Because again humans haven’t changed that much.
Stephen: [53:21] Is there a cost to have that conversation that initial conversation with you.
Speaker 19: [53:25] It’s a free discovery call. We just were deceived were a fit and then after that time have I. Everything I do is customized. So it’s a customized conversation. At the end of it I’ll just share with you what I can. What I can’t do it maybe is Offenbach I can do anything here. You know I’ll tell you everything I do is one on one. I don’t have a big package or any kind of things like that I like to work with my clients like I want to actually do a done with the program where I take you step by step and measure you through the process.
Stephen: [53:55] OK. I’m definitely smarter after the conversation. Well there they sold me on you and I must admit I get so many of these and I’m always like you know when they sold me on it I’m like Oh very interesting.
Stephen: [54:11] Well no I get why no I get what I think the value that you bring is you’ve seen the other way to do it. It’s not just must be Facebook right. It must be Facebook. Those books the only thing you can do with that there is a place for that. But it’s not the only thing you could do. And they’re busybodies doing that thing and that’s probably where you don’t want to be. There
Heather: [54:29] is a place for that. But I would say there’s so many other things you can do before that and that would make you money then help you build a real solid business and then you can do that.
Stephen: [54:45] Well you know because each each feel about business to get to know each. Haven h h I mean who do you go by. H squared is that what you should know. I like it. Whether I like it. I love the energy that you bring to you and I really appreciate. I wish you nothing but success. Thank you so much.
Stephen: [55:07] Dan great interview. Really enjoy my time whether are a bundle of energy but art and love. I love the focus and the. There’s no doubt in my mind she’s going to be successful and that’s what I think that once you get to that place you know what you’re doing. You just have to execute it well. I think you’re going to be a much better seller. I think there’s so many jewels in here and start building out your plans 2018. You got to start planning and by implementing some of these things that are describes. I mean just an insert alone simple easy thing to do. Love it. The text on your phone number. Genius again. Really really enjoyed e-commerce momentum. Dot com don’t forget my sponsors. Solar labs and they are killing it with scope. Love it. Love it.
Stephen: [55:51] Love it. If you’re not using it try it. Try it try it’s free trial you’ve got to try it. Check your keywords and then adjust that title. Get them right. Get that those key words in the back get them right and scope will help you do that. Solar labs dot com buzzword slash scope. Use the code momentum.
Stephen: [56:09] Write the code word momentum and you’re gonna save 50 bucks and you’re going to get a couple of free keywords. Take care.
Cool voice guy: [56:16] Thanks for listening to the e-commerce momentum podcast all the links mentioned today can be found at e-commerce momentum dotcom under base episode number. Please remember to subscribe and like us on iTunes.
