268 : Barry “Treebeard” Mark – Part two of a deep dive into a reinvented successful Ecommerce business

Yes our conversation continues. We like to talk! 🙂 In this segment Barry gets into the nitty gritty, not so pleasant details of a business decline and its resurrection from the ashes. He shares a lot of details and absolute pearls of experienced wisdom that hopefully will help you stay on the straight and focused path of success. He also talks about evolving again even though it might be working. Be ready to have change as a big part of your model.



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Andy Slaman’s Amazing Freedom Course information click Here!

Gaye’s Million Dollar Arbitrage List


Scope from Sellerlabs



Transcript: (note- this is a new tool I am trying out so it is not perfect- it does seem to be getting better)

Stephen:                             00:00:00               If you are a subscriber of my e-mail newsletter you would have seen a note from me mentioning that yes I will prep your product for free. And I’ve gotten a bunch of questions about that and are like wait wait what do you mean you’ll prep it for free. So

Stephen:                             00:00:15               here’s the deal. You know Andy Simmons an amazing freedom their sponsor of my show and their course is launching and it’s all open for a week or two. Just about that and Andy pays me I mean quite frankly if he’s on his course he pays me. We all know that. I’ve been very clear about that. And to entice you to come through me which doesn’t cost anything additional. We have offered my wife my son and I will prep your first private label product that you developed through his course. Now his course is phenomenal. I’m in there so you’ll get to see me. You’ll get to consult with me and we can talk about you know what the prep is going to require you’ll send it to our warehouse and our location. We do have a loading dock so that’s going to save you some fees.

Stephen:                             00:01:00               You don’t have to get a lift gate or any of those things. Your first order up to a thousand units. I am going to qualify and say you got to do it within six months because I want you to take action. But here’s the deal. No fees whatever. No Labels bags whatever. That’s your responsibility. But outside of that we’ll actually do the work for you. We’ll do a cursory inspection for you and we will absolutely ensure that your product gets there. The best we can. And you know I’m excited about that because I want you to focus on developing a product and then launching it. That’s where the hard work is and that’s where the road is going to help you the most is launching a product and worry about packing it up and getting it in there.

Stephen:                             00:01:41               We can help you with that. And again I’m going to do the first thing for free. How do I make money on it. And he pays me. So I just want to be clear about that and offer that to you. The only way you’re going to get that we are not a prep center. The only way you’re going to get that is if you join through my link and it’s on this episode it will be on the next couple of episodes. But it’s amazing freedom does come forward slash momentum. Then it’s a hyphen and the we’re joining the link there. But it’s amazing freedom. Come forward slash momentum with the hyphen joining. And if you put that in there you click on that link. All behind the scenes wizardry will get notified and then to send me a note saying hey I signed up through your link and I want to work with you and your family Steve.

Stephen:                             00:02:25               First the most success. Everybody knows that Andy and I have a warehouse 12000 square foot warehouse so it’s kind of a connected deal anyway but I’m going to do the work myself or my wife and my son. We’re going to do the work for you to get you started off to a phenomenal 2018. It’s only going to last for you know this opening. I’m not going to continue it. And if you have questions send me a note. You got to do it. You’ve got to take action and this is a chance 2018 to take the money that you made from Q4 and develop a real business a real brand. We’ve all seen those businesses getting sold out and check some of the sites that are selling businesses their multiples because they’ve created brands are selling at multiples pretty phenomenal.

Stephen:                             00:03:10               And so again the only way you’re going to get that is if you come through my link there’s no extra charge. I’m the only one offering it. It’s amazing freedom dot com forward slash momentum Ifan join. Want to take a chance and thank my other sponsors today to sell or labs with scope scope is a phenomenal product men just got done talking about launching a private label product well here’s the deal. In order to launch it you need to know the keywords that will work. Scope has a phenomenal tool where you can find the number one number two competitors of the products that you’re launching and find with their keywords are. That’s the beauty of it. Then you use those.

Stephen:                             00:03:45               There’s no sense in reinventing the wheel. You use them because they’re already proven it’s the proof of concept you’re looking for. So it’s a phenomenal tool. So you go to solar lab stock come forward slash scope used to code momentum momentum and you get to save 50 bucks and you going to get some free keywords.

Stephen:                             00:04:03               OK so that’s what you want to do. So take that take that course from Andy and now all of a sudden you scope. Right. Use

Stephen:                             00:04:10               those keywords to help launch that product. That’s where the hard work is. And then again we’ll prep it for you. And also don’t want to miss. You know Karen from solutions for e-commerce phenomenal I just saw somebody else posting it was John Lawson or somebody else posting a recommendation for her because it’s a phenomenal service. We’ve used it we’ve used it for now a couple of years. And again we pay the same price. She does pay me again. We all know that she’s a sponsor of the show. But I wouldn’t be recommending her if I didn’t use the services. And it’s been a phenomenal service. So if you go to solutions for e-commerce the number for e-commerce dotcom forward slash momentum. You’re going to save 50 dollars a month. Yep fifty dollars per month no extra cost. And she’s going to do that inventory health report for you.

Stephen:                             00:04:57               Use her for phenomena. So back to this private label you’re going to launch a new product will you need to get your listings created. Well that’s what Charonne specializes in. So she’ll help you get those listing credit you got variations even better. And what’s very cool is she’s now into Shopify. She can help you with eBay you know launching it out on eBay. It’s just really been a phenomenal service for us. So again you go to solutions for e-commerce dotcom forward slash momentum save the 50 dollars. Get that inventory Health Report. Start out 2018 with all three sponsors. You know Andy Simmons corps get in there and get started with the private label product. Use or labs to help you launch that product right. With those keywords using scope and then have Charron manage your account. It’s a phenomenal set of tools. You’re going to see me in all those groups because we use all those services.

Stephen:                             00:05:48               Let’s get into the podcast.

Cool voice guy:                  00:05:51               Welcome to the e-commerce momentum podcast where we focus on the people the products and the process of e-commerce selling today. Here’s your host Stephen Peterson.

Stephen:                             00:06:04               Welcome back to the e-commerce momentum podcast. This is episode 268 Barry mark or Barry Treebeard as we know them. So this is the second of a two part series.

Stephen:                             00:06:15               When we last left Perry I describe it he was in the corner sucking his thumb.

Stephen:                             00:06:22               That’s a overexaggeration but he just had his business life completely collapse around him. And you know some of it he will own up to and said yeah he could’ve made some different decisions but then again the world happened around him and he wasn’t ready for it. He wasn’t paying attention. You know that’s not a criticism. How many of us are not paying attention when things are going well especially most of us look the other way because we can overlook things because we’re so busy and Perry is here to tell you that’s not a good idea. But there are some great lessons that he teaches you really want to pay attention to him because I think they’re so relevant today. And I just I see so many really successful people following them. And it’s just a great story. So let’s get into the podcast. All

Stephen:                             00:07:12               right welcome back to the e-commerce momentum podcast I’m very excited again to have part two a continuation of my discussion with Barry mark or Barry Treebeard as we all know him. And when last we left Perry he was in the corner sucking his thumb. His business had collapsed due to mostly external forces. But you know those external forces can happen today. I think of the Bitcoin fiasco for some people right. Who. People who went and borrowed money mortgaged their house and bought bitcoin and watched it drop six or seven thousand dollars in a day or two and then they got to pay it back. Now fortunately it recovered but it’s those things those external forces and your inability to read them. Which is Steve talking about himself is not that I don’t have that skill set. And what you’re describing is not building risk into the model.

Stephen:                             00:08:09               Right. That’s what we’re describing. And so you know there’s a person that you and I both know who’s been writing about their money troubles lately and just you know borrowing so much. It’s not building risk into the model. Everything’s good until it isn’t. Right. I’ve had so many people on that used to do the Google lease to build websites and then do the links in the back links and all that kind of jazz made fortunes off of those. Right. And then Google changed their algorithm and overnight their complete business is gone. And it’s like oh my gosh. Well you got to build that into your business. And so debt building debt risk into your business is probably the most it’s probably the most painful one. Right it’s the most volatile right. I mean to me. I don’t know what else would be I guess employees would be but Popoy that debt thing is scary that you might realize about this when you’re down.

Barry:                                    00:09:06               And then when the creditor writes that what happens.

Stephen:                             00:09:10               You know there’s a tax gain. Right.

Barry:                                    00:09:14               Yes.

Stephen:                             00:09:17               And so now you’ve got to owe more money on that whole thing. Technically so when you’re in the corner sucking your thumb.

Barry:                                    00:09:27               Well that’s something I figure out. I started to hire experts. They told me you just write a letter. The IRS says the true I have all this money I have no no assets zero. Therefore raised. And they said yes you’re right. And they did.

Stephen:                             00:09:51               So there is a point when you can do that depending on what kind of debt it was. Right. That matters. Well

Barry:                                    00:09:57               this came up and that the whole foreclosure crisis. Everyone had income and so so many people were affected by it. They changed the law or they set up the mortgages written are never mind thought as I think more people are affected. It’s OK.

Stephen:                             00:10:16               And it’s probably reasonable and that’s when when it should be you know those those things again and you know the banks lend you money and you bought it. So who’s who’s culpable. Both right. Who’s more culpable I guess that really comes down to I don’t know. I mean I have mixed emotions about it.

Barry:                                    00:10:37               If you look at it from a purely transactional point of view I probably paid the banks more money a hundred times over. I

Stephen:                             00:10:48               agree with you. You know I always say that to somebody like go drive past the bank and look at their furniture and then look in your living room what that meant literally.

Barry:                                    00:10:57               If the money that ended up owing was greater because for a year they’re hitting you for 30 percent.

Stephen:                             00:11:04               OK. So you might have owned them a thousand dollars and by the time they were done oh you always. Thirty thousand dollars. Very well.

Barry:                                    00:11:10               Now that it was technically owed but if you really look at the morality of it is up for 100000 I have paid back 120 and they said OK soloists Breillat twice like this. But nowadays we’re stuck with a morass somewhere right.

Stephen:                             00:11:29               Right. And here’s the other thing I go to is that you know when you think about the right now I don’t know what category you’re selling in but you’re going to have returns right you’re going to lose a percentage of whatever you do no matter what. Well you just that’s you got to build that into your business model. Right. And so you know that a thousand times you pay that bank right and paid all the interest and whatever it was and then that one time you didn’t. They still made money on you and along when you look at the long game and so hence the reason they’re all still in business. So. OK so. So you go in the corner or you start sucking your thumb. How do you rise up out of there. I’m not going to let you get past this one I want to know how you get up and try to rebuild.

Barry:                                    00:12:13               Well I have the skills that I had. I have maintained that and been selling on eBay since 1997 and Amazon since 2002. And so there was a bookstore going into business and I said Oh I’m sure I could buy if I buy well bye bye. Well I can make money. So isn’t Amazon really quick. And so I went off with a 10 percent retail price freeze for certain categories classics mainly but they were classic. They always bring us up and turn up. And I was able to sell them pretty rapidly. And then parlays the profits and sell them when they return on capital in effect and buy more and I knew many wholesalers for them prior and they slowly opened accounts up and slowly built it up only working out of my garage.

Stephen:                             00:13:14               I wanted to ask you that you had no thoughts of buying that brick and mortar of that bookstore going out of business in any possible way. Is

Stephen:                             00:13:21               that where the gun shy isn’t. Yes yeah oh yeah.

Barry:                                    00:13:26               There was no way no not too much expense and also I was contemplating stay at home dad some to some degree at. So I could operate the house driving school and pick them up and then pack back the orders and ship the orders.

Stephen:                             00:13:50               In between your marriage survived that downfall of the business. What’s that say about when you look back what you put your your wife through. I mean do you think about that.

Barry:                                    00:14:05               Oh yeah. She’s she’s amazing. She was me luckily. Luckily I have a Segas nicely.

Barry:                                    00:14:19               I was.

Barry:                                    00:14:21               I have zero money but I kept our assets separate so she she was able to an affair. She also got she started you do.

Stephen:                             00:14:38               You were smart enough back then you know to keep things separate. So that’s another good lesson again. Building risk into the business. And I think that’s one of the big things you don’t plan to fail. Right. So you plan for all the good times right. Whenever you buy make a biopsy this all the time. Hey I just found I don’t know what was that hot toy fingerlings at Target and bam when I’m done selling them I’m going to make seventeen thousand dollars. You’ve seen the poster. You know I’m talking about. OK. Well that might be true but you are going to get some returns and you’re going to now deal with the counterfeit thing and by the way you might have to deal with an IP claim and they may not all sell because the price of what they were selling at at that peak when you see them at sixty nine dollars that only lasts for a week or two weeks and then all of a sudden demand or supply catches up and then they’re going to drop down.

Stephen:                             00:15:30               I don’t know what the fingerling sales were to be honest with maybe 12 bucks 13 bucks in a store.

Barry:                                    00:15:35               Yeah. And it’s actually I think everyone should consider this when I see it all the time like a fingerling query flipped mass a problem thing when you really see something new product with that you want to sell on Amazon or iPad and say there are some competitors one or two or ten how many. And the price is 20 dollars and you can buy 10. And then if he’s made and you make five dollars while you presuppose that everything is fixed when you come in and try to share the firebox or lower the price he beat box or come with you. Or it could be a new supply coming in that you know about. So every time you make a buy decision unless you have an exclusive basically saying the same clothes there’s not a thing really great as great as that every every product I see all the law.

Barry:                                    00:16:33               I see there’s a gap there. The brand the vendor can make a profit. This I’m always thinking OK well like a month or two later what happens when you’re in a fight. The vibe of play is that proselyte there how far can you write it down.

Stephen:                             00:16:47               I think I use this example. You know when you go to a SD and you go to that the liquidation room I don’t know what they call that whatever that you’ve been there. You know I’m talking about where were all the vendors are selling you know to me it like laundry soap every everybody selling the same Andrija. But my example is this. There are close outs there liquidator’s. This is it’s discontinued. Then you’re like oh man I can buy this hot thing it’s discontinued I’ve seen those stories where people have bought the discontinued deodorant that people want or shampoo I think shampoo is a really good one and you can’t get any more and they’ll pay a premium for it right. But then you walk down the next aisle and there’s another guy with it. And then you walk down another aisle and there’s another guy with the same thing in and I’m thinking it’s him. Maybe yeah. That guy says he bought the rest of the quantity so did that guy.

Stephen:                             00:17:34               And so did that kind of that I said. So there is a big lesson there that you know what you think and what you know are two different things. And that person who’s selling it to you really believes that they bought the rest of it because that’s what he was told. And so you got to be caught and back to the point. The point is to build risk into your business model no matter what there will be risk factor it in and then you’ll make different decisions.

Barry:                                    00:17:57               Fare Oh yeah exactly. So I’ve got a little bit in the Hall says Carticel problems affectionately call room you know that call all.

Stephen:                             00:18:13               It’s possible. Yeah.

Barry:                                    00:18:16               No protection against it. Papago the but. Is also 99 percent or direct from the manufacturer and recently many food items. As I wanted to thrips through the buyer seller email system. They don’t want the stolen items or purchase it either direct from them or through through their authoress wholesaler and almost always from a employee of the company at a sponsored food show. If I get that merchandise I have perfect invoices from imagine the risk of doing it.

Stephen:                             00:19:05               All my love. I got a letter from Andy Slamdance company saying hey you’re not authorized to sell your product I’m like Andy it’s me.

Barry:                                    00:19:15               Oh I’m like Really. You’re sending me an inauthentic. You know it’s it’s funny but it’s true.

Stephen:                             00:19:21               You never know. So I agree with you. And those things are are you want to be very cautious. However there is a good thing that you can. I mean I worry about stolen merchandise and then counterfeit those two things I’m very very concerned about. Right. So assuming that these are reputable companies and you don’t have to worry that they really are selling legitimate products the place might be to sell for eBay had Rany Reynolds on at one time in him and his wife and his wife was sourcing wholesale for eBay. That was their business model. That piece that division that she was working on. That’s a very sensible business model and that model is different right because there really isn’t a buy box. I know they’re trying to have one there really isn’t. So you can do a little you know you can really see how much inventory you know is out there for sale at a given time on the eBay marketplace so you have a little more access to information there.

Stephen:                             00:20:12               If you do the research right it could be a good strong business model but because there’s a lot more there are a lot more forgiving. They’re on eBay than they are on Amazon. So anyway Larry we definitely got off track on that but I think we’re back to that build risk into your model and berries pretty good proof you know looking forward I mean is risk every decision you make is risk factor now period.

Barry:                                    00:20:36               Happy people I’ve learned from friends on Facebook. I do all the risk too much. I think like you don’t understand my version of risk. I like to use the term I like to have too much control and I like to think through all the possible outcomes and all the possible solutions. And so people misinterpret that at times to be negative most they say can be done. That’s not the way it is. I’m saying like Ok go the buy from from the liquidator. You can do it. Just what happens if you like a guy or a little bit years past. And I always check with the seller. These are online for Amazon your permission from the manufacturer can you back it up with invoices. Of course said yes but that’s how I try to imitate strict risk mitigation. It’s sort of everything I do and people have misinterpret that to be always negative. I’m not I’m positive. I

Stephen:                             00:21:45               think you have to know where your Foundation’s perspective I think it’s a perspective issue right your perspective is different because it’s tainted the rose colored glasses are a little clearer for you.

Barry:                                    00:21:59               Fair Exactly so. So it’s that we were restarted selling books. Amazon and eBay and worked out of the house and then work and then worked out of the storage facility then rented a small warehouse never and never took a salary. That’s right. My wife is a teacher so she was supporting us.

Stephen:                             00:22:30               And you helped raise a family. I mean to be fair you did your part.

Barry:                                    00:22:35               Yeah yeah but also within within a year or two you know things were humming along nice. I just didn’t take a salary. The money was always reinvested. No real no real loan and no no sour. And then I started hiring people because I was going to lose too much too much business and get a company. And when I was hired initially at ten dollars an hour I had a small warehouse and that I knew that these days. And now know a bigger building and ultimately with three years before it’s had a dramatic four days.

Stephen:                             00:23:19               You can’t do anything small D. I mean it just it just creeps on you doesn’t it.

Barry:                                    00:23:25               Well yeah had rightful Hong Kong style warehouse. I don’t think Hong Kong that is. Small shops and all those small shopping streets. You know some family run businesses small businesses and they’re so small that Osaka’s is put on the street basically to make nice nice retail display. There’s a room at night where everything goes back and you can’t move the silly little store because everything pass on my warehouses like that that puts stuff outside during the day. No big shift in that week and back at night. Palace like double and triple stacked. You couldn’t move because I was flying in those days.

Stephen:                             00:24:12               Close up close but you weren’t financing a miss. Is that correct. You weren’t borrowing money to go get these books.

Stephen:                             00:24:19               No no no law no chance. I mean this was it. This was self-financing. Thinking about that you know now you know again I’m going ask you to look forward and then look back you know how well the business did this time were you smarter making decisions.

Stephen:                             00:24:38               Because every dollar was so precious and if so I’m assuming you’re going to say yes. However does that also mean you missed some good deals that you look back on and say I should have.

Stephen:                             00:24:52               I could of. I would’ve maybe should’ve but I could of not much discipline was good.

Barry:                                    00:25:01               I’ve since become undisciplined again but the discipline was good a low salary low overhead. And you can weather the storm.

Stephen:                             00:25:10               OK. All right. There’s another good lesson there for those who just came through Q4 and didn’t farewell discipline. When you think about it and you go back and look were you disciplined and that sucks to admit you weren’t.

Stephen:                             00:25:24               But because I’ve been there man I’ve got a warehouse full of undisciplined decisions shelves full of it as I’m moving from one warehouse to another. I’m finding stuff I’m like oh my god I forgot that I bought these. I haven’t seen him. I’m in a section of my warehouse I haven’t been in in years. Literally I’m pulling things I’m like oh my god I forgot I bought these. Just.

Barry:                                    00:25:43               What are you finding like I find. I can’t tell is more or less. I find it happens frequently. The value is gone up.

Stephen:                             00:25:53               Oh yeah. Yes. And in fairness there’s a very few. I mean Xuzhou Petz palette. Now analysts say pallets boxes of them and they get donated. I mean stuff like that you know stupid stuff like that. But no one here’s here’s a good example and I’m actually gonna be putting up for sale soon is I’ve bought Volkswagen collections. Because they’re interesting to me. I mean literally the gentleman I bought it from I bought books from them. But he was a pastor. Right. So if you here’s a book tip for pro pastors libraries are good book sources because they buy a lot of books or least they used to. And a lot of those books hold value right religious books sell well anyway he also was a Volkswagen collector and it took me a couple of years to be able to buy this as he got up and ate.

Stephen:                             00:26:35               He finally called me back and one day and said Steve you want to take it all literally we just moved. And there are hundreds and hundreds of models and you know the old liquor decanters those are common whatever. But there are some amazing Frank Limmen stuff and just crazy you know anything he found Volkswagen related he collected and it’s been sitting on my shelves for four or five years and it took you and I saw him years before that he wouldn’t sell to me. So when you think about he’s been collecting these from the 70s I think an 80s 90s whatever. So all that stuff is worth more money. Absolutely. And if you buy when you buy all of it you pay you know a couple of dollars a unit. So you’re right. However however the lack of discipline when you don’t have the money is a bad thing.

Stephen:                             00:27:24               That’s what that’s that’s really the point though right. The fact that you were able to reinvest all that money back in and you were disciplined means that that’s really why you have a hockey stick growth there.

Barry:                                    00:27:37               When you mention people are maybe aspiring or this year. Tell us all about this. Large warehouses and large Amazon logos mistakenly allow you to paper over lots of mistakes and purchases and eventually they come by let’s say that again.

Stephen:                             00:28:06               So large Amazon or large warehouses large personal warehouses.

Barry:                                    00:28:12               Like you said you have what is step in your warehouse was big enough and you were able to. So you had a great warehouse that cheap rent I presume and you had just asked us was there he just forgot about because you could because you were big enough it was like tumbling on your head every day.

Stephen:                             00:28:26               Yeah so that means I ignored it. I was able to put it put baby in the corner and ignore it. And ultimately right. I mean even though might have gone up in value you know what could I have done with that money especially if I owe other people money if I’m paying interest to somebody else. That’s double death right.

Barry:                                    00:28:47               Yeah. So people are being sent to Facebook many times what’s correct is that you know should you make ten dollars now or wait to hear it and make a 100 dollars and their math is that if you take your time and sell it 30 times and don’t wait for the hundred and then what are you going to follow up with that. Are

Stephen:                             00:29:11               you going to. Are you the economists going to say well they’re both right.

Stephen:                             00:29:16               Or they’re both wrong because that’s really an independent thing right. What’s right for you is it right for me.

Barry:                                    00:29:23               I think that’s true both right because nothing’s fixed. You can’t predict all this things that you’ll find in your warehouse in my warehouse. You bought for ten dollars might be worth 200 and may have some things that you bought for ten dollars of the work that now is zero. So I’ve got those and more. And the warehouses it’s not as big a to Amazon alone. So easy to get it’s like crack and it is so easy to sell deep trouble alone and then they keep begging you to refinance it. So easy to gauge trouble.

Stephen:                             00:30:03               Yeah. It’s a with good intentions. I mean it’s not like somebody intentionally went down there like hey I can buy this and I can turn this I can do this. I can do this. And back to your credit card example for you. You could. I mean you get to a place where you can’t sustain it. I did see. Oh I just lost my train of thought. I did see some people talking about defaulting on those loans like what happened. You know I mean I did see some of those things and I don’t want to go there because I don’t want to even think about that for anybody. I don’t want to put that out there for anyone. They will get through this. I’m confident they’ll get through this. Oh back to the warehouse that’s where I was going to go.

Stephen:                             00:30:41               The warehouse could be significant depending where you are located. So my new warehouse is six thousand one hundred square feet. My new one and it’s another 6000 and I share with a.. So there’s 12000 total. But my section the 6000 that I originally asked my cost is five thousand dollars a month lower than somebody else I know. Because he’s in a different part of the country. Five thousand dollars a month for the exact same space.

Stephen:                             00:31:08               It’s warehouse I mean it’s nothing pretty and it’s warehouse. But a month that is material. And yet we might be selling the same shoes because I sell shoes and I know this person sells shoes we would be selling the same pair of shoes that 5000 is a burden for that man. You know it is. And his labor cost depending because usually with a higher warehousing cost there’s usually a higher labor cost because they’re kind of in a better area that hence the cost is higher. It is significant then I think about the buoys down in Kentucky. You know when you if you know Dan and Eric down there where they are it’s even half a mine. It’s that much cheaper and so competitively you know that’s a big difference that’s when warehousing can be a factor.

Barry:                                    00:31:51               100 percent is when the horse the cart. One of my predictions for 2008 is it’s the year of cheap. We’ve got a cheap warehouse in a central location like the boys in Kentucky or Steve Pennsylvania. Steve Covay solvable prime MFM shipping eBay all that stuff it’s come back and it could be in those places. My my rent is a huge warehouse getting too big and no one to pay. My book business cratered not because the Kindle just business itself created greater Carsley without a lot of. It’s 17000 a month. Oh my God. So that’s why I started a small FBA. A word of mouth business.

Stephen:                             00:32:46               Seventeen thousand dollars a month that is a huge note that you have to do. And if you know Steve Mantha Steve not everybody else and I know there are ten times a hundred better sellers than me. You know in a block my Manito he says it’s 17 to 20 percent is the net operating income for most sellers and at my level right the low end. I’m not the guy I’m not the great guy but that’s real. And so when you do that math right the simple algebra go back and divide that by that 17000 how much you have to sell to cover that it’s enormous right.

Barry:                                    00:33:23               I mean it is a lot of the building was opposed to Hagar’s that 10 million dollars. And then my sales look the other direction recently. So music because we talk in the past we have a whole section to cover so we go back to the mid 2000s build risk into your business.

Stephen:                             00:33:41               I want to say one more time. OK. All right go ahead.

Barry:                                    00:33:44               There is another typifying store. It’s always good to try to lead a business transactions that maybe didn’t work out amicable basis. I’ve been using a freight broker and when a truck showed up and the drivers Oh I would use the lift gate and you will drop as one pound pallet maybe even less and faster. So look at that Tigerland chargeback broker. Save for dollars. My guess is it would take me 30 minutes to load the boxes. And the driver shouldn’t shouldn’t have offered a charge rate but usually they don’t charge if they’re offering. They want to get faster and we have this SUV and I think I ultimately paid them I said Well well do all of the radios. A Funny Thing Happened Sunday night. This lady calls me up and says oh I saw lots of books. Great prices are our Fraker. So you buy lots of books.

Stephen:                             00:34:58               And she was right.

Barry:                                    00:35:01               So great prices lots of books and I could buy you amazing stuff from her amazing prices. We built the business up to say eBay we were doing the mob.

Stephen:                             00:35:17               That’s incredible to do. Eighty thousand dollars a month on eBay. That’s a million dollar a year run rate very very very few large eBay sellers that are not big giant corporations doing a million dollars on eBay. Very very rare. So you’ve built up this massive eBay business and at this point what what were you doing on aim as well.

Barry:                                    00:35:40               Was it more than that.

Stephen:                             00:35:41               Right. But

Barry:                                    00:35:42               were you effing or were you happier than I was looking for a beta tester for the end of the IP address to get the so we can mention I went out there and they made a presentation about FBA coming up and I said I must get in please. I’m asking it. And they relented they took us. And it was it was it was very good. It worked well but we used more of a liquidation because the fee the fee structure and and some expensive books we think would be handle very well in warehouses and shipping. So we prefer to do it ourselves. So the type of person we had to do was we had sometimes 5000 of a time minimum you had great prices. And there were certain things that we actually purchased an entire 48 hour trailer when title like.

Stephen:                             00:36:53               And when this was all just going to get sold on one of three channels or were you wholesaling books.

Stephen:                             00:36:59               Also at that point so it was either going to get sold on eBay Amazon merchant fullfil or Amazon or Amazon FBA. OK so one of those three.

Stephen:                             00:37:12               OK. And so I mean how many you know was there 26 pallets on a 48 foot trailer. I don’t know how many books fit on a pallet but a lot. I mean you’ve got to figure a dozen on each side of a box and then you’ve probably got 20 30 BOQ. I

Barry:                                    00:37:27               mean 50 items out there took the box SOS was different there it’s 10000 sets of books on a title.

Stephen:                             00:37:42               You’re not rolling in on seven this is a calculated risk at that point.

Barry:                                    00:37:47               Well you are. OK. That’s not a problem. I said wake up and say it was a box that tied to an HBO series. Right. Movie

Stephen:                             00:38:04               release or what have you. So a Harry Potter set for example. So when you think about that though. Did you know the number of sellers that was this.

Stephen:                             00:38:12               I mean were you being the type of mental capacity you have. Were you looking at it saying OK it will be 12 other mega sellers like me and if we all sell a thousand or 10000 you know that should supply you know that should handle the demand.

Barry:                                    00:38:30               Well since it was so a yearly thing almost knew what the demand was there. And what happened was Caijing my supplier with double simply triple shipped me. And as these folks roll I blossom and it was like if you had it it would sell. We started seeing hope or 50 or 100 of his title. And I got 400 and that’s what they’re all sold. So maybe I’m thinking too small to smile and more of.

Stephen:                             00:39:01               There weren’t a lot of other sellers entering that market like there are today. Right. Where you go and you can go and buy through entertainment earth with the hot ones. Last year they sold this YouTube at the they were like Furbies you know talking about you know saying is that there weren’t that many. Nobody else had access. At that point when you were at that level you because you’re at the publisher level so you’re it wasn’t they just weren’t accepting Amazon sellers.

Barry:                                    00:39:29               No no not at all. We also by the way those quanties also sometimes negotiate discounts so I think the basic risk calculation was paying X you know selling X of a hat to the government. It wasn’t something that was so much you know it was the payment terms over a sometimes six months and they usually usually sold out was occasionally entered into a single warehouse. We stack them up double triple the side of the warehouse is safe. And over time it’s only when one is glad we got the books. There was there was a farmer in them in the books and they weren’t talking about me or street reps will stop you’re crazy and then lose to the big warehouse. We saw one pound ants had devoured natural carnivore Saturn out of the boxes and a guide to illustrate Bracken’s the books made made actual hills and farms were crazy.

Stephen:                             00:40:51               That tells you something when you think about that customer that you felt. So

Stephen:                             00:40:55               now you got to feel bad. Right. I mean I’ve done that. You know it’s like the whole way that we don’t do that and then you go look I’m like oh my god I think we did it.

Barry:                                    00:41:04               It all looks like a mailbox. That’s just sworn to have lessened. It was less like last week. We went to plan love brought donuts and time to Salvadorans for yes. They were there in my house as well. Turns out the last word about the box was kept Florences.

Barry:                                    00:41:31               The big brown hit me ask you something this is this is this might be too personal you might. And please don’t get offended by this. But listening to this level success when you get you ordered 50 and 400 come in and you sell them all and all of a sudden you run the risk of getting a little cocky. I don’t want to say again because I’m not saying you got cocky before but maybe your filter your risk meter gets a little softer as you say you get a little less disciplined. You

Barry:                                    00:42:00               said that you do. You are. You get back there. Is that started. Did did you start to see that even before the book changes that Amazon massive that they made last year and it was last year when they made that massive change on books and fees. You know we can’t keep one book there and all that kind of chance. But did you did you see those things starting to tear down that that armor that you built back up.

Barry:                                    00:42:25               Oh yeah well I had this big warehouses too big that I have right now no question about that.

Stephen:                             00:42:32               So how do you prevent that. I mean I guess that’s because you know again our goal is with this message. Numbers can be like wow. These are long interviews. These two they are. But I think the reason is because I want you to do 2000 18 different if you had an incredible year and things went really well for you. That is awesome and I applaud you. And man I’ll celebrate right along with you. However please build risk into your business just so when things don’t go right and they won’t know it will rain some day that you’re prepared. Right. And that’s all I’m asking for in that scenario or on the other side if your business really tanked and did terrible please listen first Berris proof that you can recover. However there is risk because even after recovery and you start going back up again you can get a little done. This is a negative term but I don’t mean it that way.

Barry:                                    00:43:23               Cockie almost Oh I don’t think that’s the role of business books you could read nearly all the pages in the pages. I think that’s what separates working separates successful and successful people. And I’m struggling with that. Tuesday you have to realize that the best idea can changing always have an exit strategy or a way to cut your losses. So to sum it up. Always be humble always be humble.

Barry:                                    00:44:00               That’s a Warren Buffett thing. I mean he is a very disciplined investor. That’s how you go for the loan came very very disciplined knows that he must say versus the very few yes’s where when you’re when things are going well you know back to that 75 dollar you know trucking thing you just absorb that cost because it’s no big deal. I can handle I can absorb that because things are going well when they’re not going well. And that’s that discipline so you can exercise that discipline when things are going well.

Barry:                                    00:44:29               That’s what really separates the great from the good yeah well is that the heart especially this business is so hard it’s really all so I guess as many many as that do a great job and don’t have much Rhus so many know you don’t know the demand supply. You know the price of selling the things that you are risking lay it out. So is that is the hardest thing maybe even all retail or maybe in the Internet are I don’t know that is sums it up. You

Barry:                                    00:45:02               just can’t tell what you think about toys r us. I think I just saw something said they might close another 200 stores you know and I mean you know they didn’t buy all these toys and all the same. I mean let’s face it the external influences that are affecting them are incredible. The Amazon I mean think about your that retailer and how all of a sudden this behemoth of Amazon is now targeting your industry now. Toys they’ve been doing for a long time. But what are some of the other industries. I just read that Amazon is looking at pharmaceutical delivery right. Imagine what that does to you. I don’t know about your market but we have a drugstore in every corner and there used to be competitors now they’re all the same. They’re almost all owned by the same company and they’re they’re they’re huge brick and mortar expenses huge retail presence what and where they make a ton of money.

Barry:                                    00:45:54               Right is that pharmaceutical. What happens if that model goes away. Right. I mean so you want to talk about external influences affecting your business. BuildOn risk I mean ultimately that’s really it. You’ve got to build in risk because something it will rain. As Dave Ramsey said. Right. You need an umbrella because it will rain.

Barry:                                    00:46:13               Yes you’re right this is about crime. War is faster and more external issues. If you go back you know 40 50 years. You could have a great regional original drug store in your block forever whatever you could control it was not competition the biggest externality would be like a recession. Now you’re right it was like a minute or anyone a man like you know with the door of a drugstore. They think a store still being discussed. There was a serious buying. If they want to make a move ahead of Amazon so they try to efficiencies through an insurance company and drugstore. But you also have maybe go back to the question you asked me earlier when maybe I should a Jolson’s my wholesale business you know 20 years ago and gone straight into I only maybe all this is about to creative destruction.

Barry:                                    00:47:25               Well I think you’re back to you know that a examinee from all possible angles or as I was thinking about with your warehouse space. Now let’s diagnose Barry for a second. So you’ve got this massive space that for example that I’m going to give you a couple of different examples. There is a company out there right now buying Amazon businesses that are private label specific and they’re adding that to their existing warehouse so they have the infrastructure to handle. They sell glasses of I’m going to my glass of water and they sell silverware or whatever and then they come along and like hey let’s get dining room tables because that’s related or something stupid like that. And so they buy these companies and just pop it in because it’s just Skewes on their shelves. They already got all the rest of the processes built out.

Barry:                                    00:48:10               Have you looked at you know out subleasing some of your warehouse space to other Amazon sellers and I know there’s lots of risk and all the rest of that content I don’t know if you own yours or a few leases and then sublease it out what have you. Have you thought those things through. Almost like a venn diagram and saying you know here’s my strengths and here’s my other things. Have you thought about that because you’ve had some success in real estate. I mean you’re good at that. You must have bought it right if you sold it at a profit or are you just time the market right which is still an art.

Barry:                                    00:48:41               Well yes I have and look in real estate. Yes I’ve been lucky we didn’t discuss much of that. But yes I always bought during the downturn or recession. I also always on Iraq. I always bought extra security grow and move so easily so I bought extra and rent it out. But we do do southerlies my warehouse. One of my neighbors. Well this was a family friend turned out anyway. It’s a national company. Have a warehouse really so big you dropship right. And there are plaques to all of the retailers of the whole country. And they had space next door going over and they wanted to give it up to save money. And so I do read a portion of my warehouse and they take legations almost daily now. So they do that. And they remember not only are erecting my warehouse and renting my expertise and my employees when we do business prepping for 12 years now. So yes I do exactly as I have excess capacity. I’m selling my service just like polecats so FBA. So FBA.

Barry:                                    00:50:08               So. So you are doing okay. So good I feel better. Okay. And that makes sense. And so you quietly mentioned it before now that I think back to our conversation you do a word of mouth offer those services. What state are you located in. We’re in Florida near Florida so. So if somebody is looking for those services I will have a link here. But it’s there’s a filter because Barry is conservative and Barry is risk averse. So understand that and don’t just say Hey can I just rent on terms.

Barry:                                    00:50:42               No prepay. Right. So when you think about you know your story of recovery rate we can even hold out.

Stephen:                             00:50:58               I’m going too far ahead. All right go ahead.

Barry:                                    00:51:00               Wow. It’s a whole interesting concept that you always like. About three years ago probably convinced my wife to quit her job as a teacher. Now she works in the business.

Barry:                                    00:51:12               Well now when I read that I assume though being a teacher she has a pension. She has all the life or health insurance for life and all that safety netting. No not.

Barry:                                    00:51:23               Oh no removed and Sochi you know split up to them the timeline cream location. You worked for what they call charter schools that are so capped.

Barry:                                    00:51:35               Right. Right. I’m familiar with that. So she comes into the business and she comes in with a different skill set similar skill set. I don’t know what kind of teacher she was versus you the engineer mental thought person kind of a what kind of skills that she bring.

Barry:                                    00:51:55               That’s a great question. We sort of she sort of just evolved into somewhat of listing creator BOTELER And then more importantly she’s the Amazon catalog whisperer. He spends hours a day talking trying to fix you know fix their problems and different issues in the catalog. You know it was a tough job doing that.

Stephen:                             00:52:24               When you think about the success you have. What what. And be careful because this marriage has the last. What percentage would you attribute to her coming in. Because you already said you’re undisciplined.

Stephen:                             00:52:40               And so you wouldn’t pay attention to that stuff. And so her paying attention to that stuff. Is there a factor that you could say it’s had this impact on my business.

Stephen:                             00:52:50               I mean this is the time to compliment your wife to try and assess that it to the very end.

Barry:                                    00:53:02               My two tips one is they will call later that year. Death by a thousand cuts issue as well as having me stay in business and fight the battle of the crowns. And so she’s the one that saves the business money by going across like I call crumbs. When you make a bundle and you hoard 3 4 5 components manufacturers she’s not them all and yet the way we make a new bundle handle when you have no homes or buy something and you go to that she says oh so much less than XYZ changing the color change or whatever. So either fix the Cadillac theme or make new a new engine and new listing or what exactly happened. Anyone want to pay storage fees as sitting here.

Stephen:                             00:53:56               Yes.

Barry:                                    00:53:58               And that and that stuff would not have happened that would just warehouse Phil right. If she wasn’t there just warehouse ville that’s the stuff that I’m finding in my warehouse years later right. It’s just you know yeah I’ll get to it. And life happens. There

Barry:                                    00:54:12               are still crumbs. We have customer diners clothing and shoes all at the seeing she which is incredible this year. All the stuff that comes and she sells it all she gets Lucy determined that she listens and. So without her you know know that without everything everything would accumulate as where I still and a drag on the business until one day I reached that point and say oh that’s me. You know we have also a up. We can’t go back and buy us later maybe. Got cost.

Barry:                                    00:54:51               Well it’s my Volkswagen collection right. How much did I pay for. And that’s been sitting there for years right. That’s money I can’t do things with. And God forbid I borrowed money is what we were talking about. But if I didn’t even still it’s one of those we have all that money you have all this inventory do you have a business. If it’s not for sale it’s not really a business right. And so where I was going to go with that is a lot of people ask me hey what do I do with my stuff. You know how do I get rid of it. You know what do I do. If you get to that place where it starts to accumulate pretty heavily you need to find an outlet. And in your case you found an employee who happened to be your wife somebody with that skill set but you gotta make that decision.

Barry:                                    00:55:32               I mean it’s my by Steve’s tip. So he’s moving into a new warehouse. I am not designing this warehouse like my existing warehouse. I am fixing the things that are wrong with it or I’m not doing it for example I’m painting the walls. It’s so stupid. This sounds like a spend in a forge. I think they’re up to 60 gallons of paint. Right now it’s 60 gallons. I’m like What do you guys drink in this stuff every time I go back there. We need more paint. How much are you kidding me. However I just wanted to look. I want to look I want to be the sea and not be this dark dismal place where stuff gets piled into a corner. Right. There’s no chance.

Barry:                                    00:56:06               I mean I have enough shelving everything is going up on a shelf. There’ll be nothing on the floor because I don’t want to I don’t want to work in that environment anymore. You know I mean and so what point do people make the decision to hire out or hire in in your case that key position because you’re saying it’s one of the key cogs to success. At what point should someone make that decision. Barry. And made me qualify it because Lee Ron Hursh coins a good example he outsources his to a person who sells on ebay and they get 100 percent of the merchandise that he pulls back and he gets 70 percent of the sales. So when it sells for 100 dollars and let’s say it nets 100 dollars after their fees. Seventy dollars goes to him and 30 dollars goes to her. The Lyster.

Barry:                                    00:56:56               And that’s exactly how we got to you know I work in that business. We’re out of ideas. You have to do it. He sees a problem. I mean he doesn’t have a warehouse so you know to do is a mealy mouthed solution and whatever we do is just like he does.

Stephen:                             00:57:18               At what point in your business that’s where I was going with it what point in your business should you be doing that.

Barry:                                    00:57:24               You should be doing it. When they say look around space you know one is getting one two three four or five customer damages or whatever back. It’s not that they keep that in this house. But not long after that you saw it. If you’re on if you’re on many many Facebook groups like you and I are all kinds of people talk about all the problems and issues. So they want to work on your business. You should be able to see people’s problems because the beauty of Facebook is that every Taussig to ask for solutions or tells the problems and they should say oh I have a similar problem and you hand as a great thing and someone that just you know has a time and wants to make the money. This is also time to process all the runners that this sorceries can build up and it’s all so easily that you should try to do it every if you if it goes back to the Orham days you should.

Barry:                                    00:58:25               Maj. Maj. Maj by exception when you’re not Muze don’t ratifiers when you have you know to be honest to Guy Islamicist a sword or they’re going to destroy them after 30 days. You should get that beforehand. So to recap get your invasively groups all time you could over a course of a month. Make a list of different items as problems as you’re growing say oh the rounds doing time and we outsource all these functions not just the just all the functions. So let me plan on I’ll do this in April you that may onto the next thing. The smartest thing to do is I say not as I do.

Barry:                                    00:59:11               But I think the way you said it was perfect solve the problems right. So I think the first place she got to go to list all your problems a be a strong enough person to admit you have problems list those problems and then solve them tackle them one by one and I think you’re a good example. Your problem got solved because your wife came in with a skill set and she’s like I’m looking at this crap. I’m going to fix this this is money tied up. Boom. Salt and inly runs case. He’s like I’m never touching crap ever. And I happened to find somebody who wants to make money with no risk to her. Boom solved. And but you can do that for every single looking looking forward. Right. You said that you’re an organized. Now it sounds like your wife made a big impact this year on your business fixing that problem.

Barry:                                    00:59:59               Yes. Is there a clue here that she should be addressed. You should be. You should say honey. Here’s my next problem. It sounds like she’s got the ability to fix some things. What I mean is that real.

Barry:                                    01:00:11               Oh yeah 100 percent sure also from day one took on the job of managing all the employees because I’m at the best that I prefer. I’ve heard that people expect you to do something like hold a hand all day long stroking you are great. You are then the converse. I don’t see them here so I just expect them to go. I sit my office and now I’m on the computer all day long and expect them to do their stuff which is unreasonable to expect so the church life is good they’re going to have lives and life’s going to happen to them. It’s unheard of as it was and is to help help the employees help us at the same time you know make their lives better our lives better. No play needs alone on this blaze all that sort of stuff. And yes a sessions.

Barry:                                    01:01:04               More importantly you gave of our chromes as she handles the H.R.. So we had to arrest them without making a list of your problems going back to Facebook see other people’s problems are because you realize that you have those problems. You had a problem. Or will the problem in the future.

Stephen:                             01:01:29               Well I remember Will Churchland saying to me we’ll say he’s a kid will you laughing right now because I always tell me I have socks older than him and he’ll do 10 or 20 million dollars in sales this year. But he said I remember him saying that he’s like Steve. The problems for a seller at 10 million dollars are significantly different than they are. At half a million dollars. They really are. They’re different and they’re much bigger problems because they’re union issues or you know big legal ish I mean whatever it be there are just bigger bigger problems right. And so I agree with you. Stuff that wasn’t a problem but as you start to approach a million dollars or two million dollars or three they start to come up right now of a sudden you’re on the radar. What does that mean.

Stephen:                             01:02:16               Well that means you’ve got to do X or whatever. Right. I mean so I think it’s smart when you do you build plans. I mean do you have a budget or a business plan any more. No I never did. Never did. I mean is that a miss. Thinking

Barry:                                    01:02:31               forward everyone who ever was. Call me stupid but I never saw how many he says. So it says one day one will graduate from business school I said. So I’m supposed to make a plan for you that predicts the future that has so many variables. It’s just a joke because you’re never going to stop the way to you’re going to 15 for the role you had anticipated. And so it was just a waste of time and I’m wrong because if we’re honest we need to have a plan. So you know I can do. I guess my my hang up is I know so much unanticipated so why bother.

Barry:                                    01:03:10               So somebody would say you are negative they are you’re saying now you’re just considering everything and it just sounds like too much turmoil. Therefore I’m not going to do it.

Barry:                                    01:03:19               I say I like negativeness coming out now.

Barry:                                    01:03:23               I mean it is something you mentioned. So when you how do you then stay on task how do you like you said my book business has declined. I’ve got to figure something else out. How are you going to stay on task and stay going in the right direction.

Barry:                                    01:03:42               Well the best tools are here. I’ve been searching through different categories. We’re good shoes and clothes. And that you know really happy returns on those. Would also Matt pricing because I’m hearing to Maglica religion and no one else’s. No one else does. You like manufacturer to say oh well we can’t help it’s our. So what’s the point. So I got a little bit disenchanted with that and so we we we’ve got other categories. And there were two ways too many trade shows and I had vowed not to go to a year but now I’m creeping up to now it’s almost like I’m going to ask the not over 100 new merchandise at all to see my current manufacturers that exhibited there and actually in the tradition of trying to actually make the orders right there I found to semitrailers last year that I just took cards and guidelines and they’re just overwhelming later on to go back and make the orders.

Barry:                                    01:04:47               I spent the time right there. Ted broke out. The reason why I do that was I need to research to see how those AC’s asylum were how similar ones are selling. We just do it by perhaps as as my friend John stargaze says. If you’re focus only one little area you’ll have so much knowledge you won’t have to refer to things you’ll know when you’re trying to get a new account or you don’t have that luxury Oh no.

Barry:                                    01:05:17               So that’s a change you’re making then you’re making a conscious decision to be very very focused. I think that that you know I mean I sit here and you could say it’s not a plan but dude that sounds like a play it’s not written but boy that sounds like a plan.

Barry:                                    01:05:30               Yeah that’s true basically. Well here here’s here’s our my hour. Our plan is for Manqele branded items or things I struggle to get them into the price per minute I get most important things into a price or sometimes I slack off in that small quantity of items and they also get them to pay per click. So it really is to the right way you have to know. You should read or create the listings or the offers set up the pricing structure and the paper click the think of this print almost all and forever.

Barry:                                    01:06:14               So it’s almost like a flowchart. I bring a product in. This is what I’m going to do with it. Boom boom boom boom boom like a checklist. Check check. Got it done got it done got it done. Okay next before you move into next you complete all that stuff right up front.

Barry:                                    01:06:29               Exactly. And love it and I’m going to be starting next week. We’re making changes so some of my longtime employees that are managing different errors. I mean that is that to put them into so essential that you have them stuck doing a lot of the tasks right. So maybe one day I work on a business. Not in the business.

Barry:                                    01:06:53               You know Will I. Sam Cointet got a couple people that are in different roles than they were years ago and I remember him telling me like oh my god. Who would have known that he was so good at this and he never let them try it. Then all of a sudden he was like because he had all this other experience on this other end and when he brought it into that world all of a sudden it exploded because he’s like he fixed all the problems that we had that we didn’t even know we had because he had so much experience. That is such a smart thing by exposing people especially if they’ve been running other divisions. They know your dirty laundry. It might not bubble up to you. They know it and they might fix some of it so I think that’s a smart move too.

Stephen:                             01:07:34               So is 2018 going to be materially different for you. Do you think. I mean is it. Is it. Are you at a pivot point in your business again.

Barry:                                    01:07:44               Yeah I think so. We were actually the first months recently where my. Year over year and not down. Backfill log book sales. So it is difficult to so it looks very high. The structure that came in. Despite careful what you wish for her. Oh yeah buy boxes of books one day. Well how excited that be great. And then well we got them but then they race east so tense. You are making money vote so for 2018 it’s more just try to be more disciplined in getting the merchandise and staying with it and understanding it and setting the flowchart me just discuss and my next big plan is it should be a big tip for everyone is getting multichannels across listening software which we we started two months ago very happy so far with it’s running. Whoever has the inventory no reason why they shouldn’t be listed on Amazon eBay.

Barry:                                    01:08:50               You know and your own Web site says at the same time. Right. This takes them some time to understand or a learning curve but once you in there I just turn my back don’t bother. You just listed in this new software and then you push it out to other venues and that’s it. The dog has to keep track of the inventory as it’s more of a selling machine than you know listening out you going to your bank.

Barry:                                    01:09:20               I love that term selling machine Didas took me to a place.

Barry:                                    01:09:25               Care to tell us which software you’re using Mac paid for free software. I will celebrate Cellebrite.

Stephen:                             01:09:34               Yeah you know when I was just a meet up in Chicago and I don’t draw a blank I don’t try to get the name right. ECOM Chicago sorry guys that celebrate the eBay guy who is a big eBay executive was there and we got to the site he’s like Steve you really got to take a look at this and talk with this company and he put me in touch with them so I am going to have somebody on. And he said they can do most everything that you probably need to get done. And I’m like No. OK.

Barry:                                    01:10:04               So he recommends him was the trigger. Based on your interview. Oh I think you were talking with who was it because you didn’t know the hurt locker so.

Barry:                                    01:10:18               OK. Yep yeah. Oh yeah. Yes. Karen recommends yeah. Karen recommends them heavily. Yeah well that’s cool. That’s awesome to hear and it’s awesome to hear that you’re pleased with it because so many times only hear about the fees you just described it differently though. It’s a selling machine. It’s not a cost structure question about it.

Barry:                                    01:10:43               Well you have a relatively high volume or buy or so as it goes. I also tried it with Louve worse call the just to relieve my branding function the way they were set up and they had great tax report. It’s actually one of the rare companies where is mind boggling. And I think my monthly was 200 Osmo. You could get tech support 24/7. They had people throughout the world and guess that you know well-trained and they help me I just have trouble you know I guess you know that’s a British company and they’re older. It could be five or 10 years old maybe I’m sure. And you know what when a company evolves that way over time and Benyus is different. Whereas I think celebrate what they have now is or has more graphical and to me very intuitive lurker was that was no basic figure out how to do it with just a little bit of help and two or three days.

Barry:                                    01:11:53               Are you bringing other employees into the fold into the celebrated World to work on it with you. It’s

Barry:                                    01:11:58               fantastic to do it yes because there’s no security issues and cell or sexual issues and intrusive verifications.

Stephen:                             01:12:07               So you’re using it as listing software too so basically that’s where it starts in the cell. And then you push it out to other venues. Miles unfortunately you can’t push care create a listing.

Barry:                                    01:12:19               So a great Amazon for Karen said awesome.

Stephen:                             01:12:23               Yeah that’s right. OK. So they do. But she said they’re working on it.

Barry:                                    01:12:27               I hope so. I mean the whole thing this year Bhana. I met them. They have the I guess work as soon as I adviser. It can be done. I mean you go to go to bat for listings for offers. So you could do that in 2005. So

Barry:                                    01:12:47               I don’t unassessed channel advisor I believe does that so I think they have that.

Barry:                                    01:12:52               So the only ones. So you do us we Craig offer are listening that is important. So

Barry:                                    01:13:03               right now we push to the end you can push it but you can manage it from Cellebrite then once you do that backwards where you bring it from Amazon back to celebrate can you then manage it from Cellebrite for Amazon.

Barry:                                    01:13:15               Well. OK. Cash for everything in one place. We’re still early into it but it seems to work well or is good. And so we’re having a problem.

Barry:                                    01:13:27               So let me ask you this because you’re further ahead on this. You have a large warehouse that you’re talking about doing more fulfillment and maybe some a lot more M.F. and eventually Sellar fulfilled which you’re on the East Coast so that you can get quite a few states from where you are for sell fulfilled prime so are you looking to integrate that into some kind of warehouse management software to.

Barry:                                    01:13:52               Is that what we’ve acquired so awesome. I

Barry:                                    01:13:55               mean that’s really the next next level right. Do you think. And I think you alluded to this earlier. Do you think that that’s going to be the big differentiator in 2018. I

Barry:                                    01:14:05               think you said that but I want to say it again I think so I think it’s become like Poza so being so huge that they can’t just handle that just to hear just like it’s like the current population of the United States. It just came into warehouses. We just can’t do it. And so there we try to push the whole map warehousing and shipping function where possible to the sellers between who would use Oracle prime or even just MFM because it’s just too much stuff and the fees are just too expensive. I used to say a year ago you could never ship media anywhere near as depression and anxiety but that’s changed with coming out. And also you do small small items. What we’re doing is you know was less than a pound. You can be the person that Amazon was charting the disorder in.

Barry:                                    01:15:15               We didn’t mention is that at our height in books we were probably during Christmas time maybe 12 600 orders per day. And gosh they were to two years in a row and closed the store down during Christmas because we had we had maybe two of 2200 orders on a Monday for the weekend. This was for you to M.F.. Yeah. Oh my God. So we have that automated now. It was amazing to me. Physically creating boxes with wire and printing labels and the and dumping metal together. You know maybe it existed but there are hundreds of thousands of dollars now. I actually see them. Twenty thirty thousand dollars systems. You look at them from YouTube looking. And that’s the cost of one employee or. But we we did that and then we tried to to know to as much as possible FBA was just easier than to wear my inventory and warehouse people getting so large and nomadism and to ship it within two days it was too great and didn’t leave much room for error lot of unreliable employees.

Stephen:                             01:16:40               Well what happens though is this stuff become unprofitable the stuff that you had this. I mean we’re back to this where you had plans you didn’t build that in that once you add humans and then they like life happens to them so they become unreliable. Right. That’s all factors. I mean I’ll be back to. To be competitive. It really comes back to a discipline issue. I mean when you were describing where as you were sitting there talking about hey we ship a lot of stuff under pound and that’s all well thought out. That’s discipline. So when you’re buying now we’re in the past you might have been like that because times are good we know. You know everybody gets a little bit not cocky to just loose you know things loosen up. You’d buy anything. It was a good deal.

Stephen:                             01:17:23               I can make money. Now it’s like yeah but hassle possible control like the post office is getting ready to raise prices now. Right. I just saw that again. They’re getting ready to raise prices again. And so those things are influencing. So if you get back to that discipline level to me that’s going to be the biggest decision in 2018 is discipline. I think that’s the thing. You know the guys who didn’t buy the hot toys for long because they knew that the price was going to tank or the ones who probably made the most money yeah you’re right the way I am I am becoming us because yeah we buy.

Barry:                                    01:18:02               We look at I look at the sea you know that the justice of the shipping for 2018 is not new but besides self-fulfilling effect. The logistics these determined eventually by an 18 19 or 20 whether to be profitable or not. And obviously the gold standard is if you can manufacture to Amazon and not manufacture free shipping to you and then we should. This is this is an amazing possibility if we reach the past year or two for Arlo’s as well the synergies with having FBA product lines. So combining pallets and load the drug actually because of the 6 o’clock Friday night. This past Friday I did it myself. Had to run faster and use your horsewhipped is how much at 6:00 or 6:00 p.m. Friday the truck left Saturday applying new merchandise for sale.

Stephen:                             01:19:08               Well unbelieve add it I. Unbelievable low cost of shipping now you had labor and you had all the rest of that jazz but cost per pound.

Stephen:                             01:19:19               You know I use this example so I’m only now 30 40 minutes away from AVP which is a Hazelton. So my costs propounds 25 to 30 cents. If I have to send to California it’s a buck and change for a pound. So and then when you see people selling sending it in for what six to eight cents a pound.

Barry:                                    01:19:39               Oh yeah. Ours was a friendship it might have been. I think it was. It came out to four cents a pound. And you know you just rub it in and that’s just me making up for us Robin Wright my best selling director the manufacturer to Amazon. So that’s a zero per pound splodges miles and so pay freeze. It was one or four cents.

Stephen:                             01:20:12               So you know I want to be where we’re at the point where I want to close with these points because I think the key when you listen to I hope people that listen to this and they listen to that first part and they say OK I can see some of that myself.

Stephen:                             01:20:26               And then OK it didn’t go so well. OK. And then we start over again and then all of a sudden we start to see some of those same things come back out again. Those external influences that we didn’t plan for that we weren’t considering they. But you’re not at that point where they are because you’ve been so conservative and risk averse. These aren’t. What does Dave Ramsey call them death decision. I mean everything. You know it you know you’re betting it all on seven right. That’s the reason you able to survive and pivot again. And to me as I’m sitting here listening to this when you hear that Barry has shipped and merchandise at one point four cents per pound and Steve is sent the same merchandise probably because I was selling shoes too and I sent him at a dollar 20 per pound.

Stephen:                             01:21:16               Who has the big competitive advantage. Well Barry right. And Barry’s big but he’s not that big. They’re much bigger sellers than Barry that have even more competitive advantages right. So the only thing a smaller sellers can do is to be more disciplined be more focused. And so I want to bring us down to that Barry because to me you know I know you’re saying you’re not but I’m hearing it. Do you have figured a whole bunch of things out or are they almost like absolutes now for you.

Barry:                                    01:21:47               Well nothing’s there for now.

Stephen:                             01:21:49               I mean for now maybe we get it you’re going to be one that wildcard but for now. Are

Barry:                                    01:21:54               they kind of absolutes. Yeah I would say that. You know I go back to many economists on the other hand is a seller smaller seller should not be disturbed by having to ship likes of guns you know 50 cents a pound. Because don’t forget they don’t have my employee overhead. Oh yeah. Seventeen thousand dollar a month right.

Stephen:                             01:22:22               That’s fair. That’s very well and back to my example the same guy who has the same sized warehouse who spending five thousand dollars more a month and he’s not that much bigger. And so that’s fair. That’s those are factors. You’re right. That’s

Barry:                                    01:22:35               that’s very fair. So is more of a. Virtually never go crazy compared to some other people but the smaller salary. You look at what you’re doing and you look at people who are for this not to not to copy exactly not to be jealous. So you look and say OK I have you know shipping you know U.P.S. whatever and then we’ll work on ways to minimize the cost to maximize profits. It’s

Stephen:                             01:23:05               that discipline issue again what you were describing about you know doing your own fulfillment. If you can weather these price increases because you’re focusing on what you’re selling and making sure they’re still profitable to me that’s a powerful powerful thing and I think you spend the time on that that’s much more useful than just going out and you know getting more space or getting bigger space and stuff like that.

Barry:                                    01:23:30               All right well go ahead. But like I said before to be successful you have to plan to avoid the death by a thousand cuts. You have this all the things like Liora did with solons. On onset unfulfillable has or at Overstock. You have to have your camera offer sponsor. Think how many times a thousand cuts Amazon Amazon’s losing things. Amazon was redefining things I found in my chargebacks work. I had a 50 Encore and I got hit with padrone church records. They hit me for the rest of the songs or on chargebacks was my merchandise and they actually still think about that. So a thousand things I know you should send in. Are they short shortchange you so a thousand different things to death by a thousand cuts things you burn and you can sell the CD inside the warehouse. So those thousand things add up over time.

Barry:                                    01:24:37               You will see that bear on the Facebook or people know that fantastic star there. You now the second year everybody everybody tells the good stuff boy exactly. Also a rough hockey stick growing back. Hopefully the growth masks the problems. Surely they come back. So it’s good to have discipline and joy back to said before making list. All those little tiny things was you know five dollars Amazon set to return back to you. And they set the glass in a pie envelope approach. They have to make them pay back for it. So you multiply thousands and tens of thousands of transactions a year and they add up. Earlier you can make systems in employees or outside services to help you. I think we’re successful.

Stephen:                             01:25:37               I think that is so powerful. Those thousands of transactions. That’s the difference between making a profit and not possibly you know what you’re describing to me. I mean I’m taking this away. This is what’s going to do. I love the way you describe paying attention to other people’s problems and mistakes that they’re talking about and seeing if they apply to you honestly looking back and seeing if they apply to you. And then even if you just create a master list of them and then you start when your downtime is let me go solve some problems and you know pay attention because Liron solution which you know runs an outlier. But Liron solution might be the solution for you or might not be but it’s one possible and if you can apply that and fix a problem check okay there’s nine hundred ninety nine other problem was a song 99 Problems and not one but ok there’s 98 left to go.

Stephen:                             01:26:24               OK let me check that off and let me check that off. I think that’s so powerful. I’ve not thought about it because a lot of times I do say Oh that is me. No I don’t have that one hey. In it maybe ego is like oh I’m better than you. All right Barry I’m better than you because I don’t have that problem and yet you know I’ve got 99 other problems.

Barry:                                    01:26:44               You’re not better than anyone working. Facebook is an amazing thing to me as I get access to people’s honest honest stories and questions. I 90 percent of what I know about e-commerce from Facebook. And you know in the past they have said Oh so you know they’re doing or they can go and those people are blowing ten times passingly now. So no you know anybody you’ve seen but there’s not Steve innocent either. Facebook is no place for lahar and they’ll close them on this. I remember when a Facebook was a booklet. You got it first. We were a freshman at Penn. You got a better picture. That was that was the Facebook. And that’s it. That was the Facebook birthday at Harvard. He took that you know made it into a super bowl tool.

Stephen:                             01:27:51               There is unbelievable. All right. Somebody has more information or they have questions they want to follow up. I’ll put your Facebook contact in if that’s OK. Sure. Is that the best way they can get in touch with you.

Barry:                                    01:28:06               Yeah well I guess you can always mail buried at Treebeard books.

Speaker 21:                        01:28:13               OK Barry at Treebeard last stuck to.

Speaker 22:                        01:28:20               I mean I know this is long and I’m sorry to make it so painful but I think this is such a great way to start the new year because it’s a it’s inspiring. I mean that stuff that talk of all that stuff I go back to the pain of how hard it was to do things but hence the reason that these things that I think you’re able to adapt so quickly to so many new things because you’ve been through that pain. And to me that’s a badge of courage but it’s also a skill set that you’ve learned and mastered. You went to that school of e-commerce for a whole lifetime and I’m also so inspired for the personal reflection the ability to admit that you made some mistakes and now you don’t make fatal mistake was the term that I was looking for before fatal mistakes. Dave Ramsey would call them because you have that risk build and that that factor and I think that’s a powerful lesson for people to build in. So I really appreciate it and I wish you nothing but success ma’am. Thank you so much.

Barry:                                    01:29:16               Thank you. Don’t forget your are your thing.

Stephen:                             01:29:20               Firstly I said you remember that were we in Vegas where we met. Originally the first plan was a philly.

Barry:                                    01:29:30               No no no. Whether it was a compliment or not.

Stephen:                             01:29:34               Oh I do remember we were at a dinner and you mentioned Howard Stern.

Barry:                                    01:29:41               Yes you are the e-commerce whisperer. Howard Stern e-commerce interviews you do the greatest interviewer on the radio say you are the equivalent.

Stephen:                             01:29:54               This is very kind of you one way not say it but thank you. And I wish you nothing but success Barry thank you so much. 2018 is going to be incredible. I can’t wait for an update to come back and talk about what went right and what didn’t go right. Because not everything is going to go right but very smart enough to know that and to me that’s the powerful thing. Thank you so much. Take

Stephen:                             01:30:15               care.

Stephen:                             01:30:17               OK. I hope I hope by hope I hope by now it was long a. Thank you Barry for giving us that much time and effort and energy because you really want to help people you don’t want to see them make the same mistakes you did. But I hope there’s a lot of lessons in there. This is 2018.

Stephen:                             01:30:33               This is a chance to redo a chance to reboot a chance to adjust if you had an incredible year. That’s awesome. Make some adjustments to make it another incredible year. If you didn’t do so well or if you’re struggling. Own up to it. I’m loving the fact I’m making a list of all the things that I hear people saying went wrong and they’re complaining about. And then I’m going to check to see what is happening in our business with those very same things. And then guess what. I’m going to build a plan to work around solve the problem. As he describes what Liron was able to do and I just think that’s a good good good place to start. It’s the plan now in his case. Barry’s not writing it down but he is going to be disciplined this year.

Stephen:                             01:31:15               Well if you don’t have a plan one down today even if it’s just like hey I want to get these six or seven things done this year and then figure out. Break them down into smaller bites and start knocking them down and knocking them back. And I just think that’s such a smart way to look at your business smart way to run your business and you can have an incredible year e-commerce momentum dotcom e-commerce momentum dot com. You heard him mention Karen Locher in this episode. She’s one of my sponsors and she’s just doing such a great job for us. And in Barry’s world too. And I just think that she has so much to offer. I endorse her. But then again remember I pay for the service I pay the same price Uvda she does pay me but I stop to pay for it myself.

Stephen:                             01:31:55               And the reason I have it is because she’s just such a great job for us. She is one of my team members. She is absolutely on her team. Her whole team is and we’re very lucky to have her so solutions for e-commerce dotcom solutions for e-commerce come forward slash momentum is going to save you 50 bucks and at 50 bucks is a lot of 50 bucks a month. That’s going to save you in perpetuity. And here’s the good news she’ll do that inventory Health Report I keep talking about long term service charges are coming like that winter is coming. They are coming so guess what. However take a look at your inventory. Get that off your list. E-commerce momentum dotcom. Take care. Thanks

Cool voice guy:                  01:32:35               for listening to the e-commerce bill as all links mentioned today we found that e-commerce momentum under the service number. Please remember to subscribe and the like on iTunes.


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